The headbutt was absolutely disgusting from a so called ambassador to the sport. Wlad could possibly argue that Fury was rabbit punching, but Wlad kept turning his head away from the action. The ref was terrible and i can't believe the HBO commentators didn't mention it.
HBO swept it under the rug, but to be fair to them, they had no control over the replays, or the German telecast, i have to believe HBO production would have spotlighted it.
Couldn't disagree with you more.
It appears Haymon's plan is to starve HBO until they throw in the towel and get out of the boxing business.
Showtime has been fiercely loyal to Haymon and Haymon does a lot of business with their parent company via Showtime, CBS and Spike.
Haymon isn't going to help HBO deliver any landmark events. If anything, he wants them to burn up their potential landmark events. Meanwhile, Haymon continues to develop most of the top prospects.
When it's time for the new generation to take over, Haymon will have most of the stars and HBO will be fighting for scraps.
Meanwhile, more and more fighters will want to sign with Haymon since he's the one that will be able to deliver TV dates and title shots.
Working at HBO at this point would be hugely damaging to everything else he's working on. Wouldn't make any sense.
Do you own your own business? Maximum value is always the objective. Haymon has contracts with FS1, and ESPN, two companies in a much more prolific competition than little old Showtime, and HBO. Haymon owes nobody anything, who cares about Showtime.
Thats company is becoming a wasteland, Haymon and HBO is going to happen, and there is nothing Showtime can do about it.
A part of me believes some boxing fans DON'T want to see this happen.
What would would they ***** about otherwise?
For the same reasons he has been allowed to clinch/foul his way throught the majority of his title defences!
He fights like a coward, he avoids exchanges at all costs. He is not a true fighter, he is incredibly soft, and this headbutt demonstrates that.
If he wanted to be clear and specific, he wouldnt have left it up to interpretation.
Maybe this was an olive branch. Hopefully. But its way too criptic for us to be definitive about anything. Look at the way he answered the Kovalev-Stevenson question.
I would have prefered something like " There is no longer a so called Haymon ban, we want to work with his fighters for the good of boxing".
Being cryptic is part of of being a public administrator, it would have been bad form to specifically mention Al Haymon.
Clearly he is referring to PBC, if you don't agree with me, feel free to share with us which promoter he is talking about.
I didn't get that from Nelson's quote at all.
oh really??? Who was he referring too? Bob Arum? Oscar? Gary Shaw? Dude please, he was talking about Haymon. No question.
Ernie -
Yes, I own several businesses. I own a newspaper, a gym, a music festival, a regional sports league and a talent management company, to name a few.
I agree that maximum value is always the objective, but with HBO's annual boxing budget at $30 million and UFC's TV contract at $100 million, it's clear that maximum value will come from a network deal, not by working with HBO.
And that $100 million network deal becomes far more realistic if HBo boxing is marginalized as much as possible. As another poster mentioned, HBO is the premier brand in boxing. HBO's demise is a necessary goal for PBC to emerge as the dominant brand.
Showtime is becoming a wasteland by design and if PBC is successful, HBO will eventually become a wasteland as well.
Has nothing to do with what boxing fans want to see. I am not a boxing fan. I am a business man. I have no emotional attachment to any of this.
Solid Post, we may disagree fundamentally, but I respect your argument.
Klitschko's long been a fighter who bent the rules to his advantage, but I don't think anyone truly saw him as a dirty fighter before. Hopefully they do so now. His headbutts showed that his good guy image was all a sham, and that when the chips are down he'll resort to anything to win a fight. This and the Povetkin and Jennings fights have made me retroactively alter my opinion on his whole career. I've never been a massive fan of his but I always respected him as a gentleman and ambassador of the sport, as well as an exemplary boxer. I now know that to be a lie. He's neither a gentleman nor an exemplary boxer but a man who's used his position to twist and manipulate the rules to his favour.
I said I'd be sad once Klitschko is beaten, but I find I'm really not. Instead it's like a weight has been lifted off the division, allowing it to finally flourish again. I don't wish anything bad on Wlad and know that he will definitely go down in the history books as a top ten heavyweight, and deservedly so, but these last few fights have really opened my eyes to just what a smoke and mirrors guy he's been. An ATG he is not.
Awesome post. I totally agree
Will Haymon want to do business with HBO?
Of course he will. More networks, more everything, not to mention there is landmark events he can stage if you consider the fighters on his roster, and the fighters on HBO's roster
When bullies get bullied. They fall apart. Like Tyson did against Holyfield.
100%.
It's mental weakness, and honestly, it really cheapens his reign. He fought smaller men, we have no idea how good he really was. I also suspect that there was some shady things going on in his comfy confines of Germany. From the drug testing, to the ring mat, I don't trust anything about K2 promotions right now.
The headbutt Was pretty blatant. The referee should have penalized him or at least given him a stern warning.
Right.
But he didn't do anything, and then, the media didn't address it.
Tyson is a trooper, so he actually have not totally whined about it, but its BS. Its a weak move from a soft fighter.
The funny thing is, Wlad's second cut came from him trying to headbutt Fury.
He head butted fury, and cut himself.
Justice
I think he was clearly talking about Haymon. Why would he make a statement like that about people they already work with? It's not even worth saying. I can't imagine that there would ever be a PBC show on HBO, but seeing them have some back and forth with their fighters would be a very nice thing.
Thats what I am saying. Not PBC shows, but PBC fighters appearing on HBO is inevitable.
If he could manage to get HBO out of the way, that would definitely be huge for PBC, but what are the chances of that? HBO has virtually unlimited resources and, over the years, they have essentially tied themselves to boxing in the same way 'NBA' has tied itself to basketball. I'm not saying its impossible, but if/when HBO no longer has an interest in big time boxing, I don't think Al Haymon (or me) is around anymore.
HBO does not have "unlimited resources", quite the opposite, they have a budget, they are a division, not a company. They are but a component of Time Warner, and the powers that be having been cutting HBO boxing's budget steadily for years. They are a subsidiary, don't get it twisted. They only have so much money to spend, they don't have 25% of the budget Haymon has to make fights.
Haymon is not a promoter, right? It'd be illegal
PBC is universally regarded as a promoter.
Semantics aside, they are THE promoter in boxing, and Haymon is the ringleader.
Break that down however you want.
All this means is that Haymon fighters should now stop making excuses why certain fights won't happen. It's also more likely that they would stop calling out HBO fighters for fear of their bluffs being called. Quillin, for instance, has moved his goal post and wants $10 million to fight Golovkin.
I totally agree with you. 1000000%. There will be no excuses for certain boxers that shall remain nameless.
why would haymon put pbc on HBO though??
whole point was to have boxing on free tv?
No, the point is maximum value, hedge funds, venture capitalist, they don't care about anything else. They want serious returns on their investment. The only want to ensure that, is be non discriminatory when it comes to diversifying.
No, he was talking about promoters who want cards on HBO.
No, he would not make such a frivolous, obvious point in his opening statement. That clearly signals a change in HBO's politics, why would he say "all promoters" and not mean it? I am not sure what your missing here, and I say that with respect.
I just debating.
He doesn't get a pass from me, I think he and his team we're obviously cheating or planning to cheat during the Fury fight.
It's turned my opinion on Wladimir completely.
I totally agree with you, it was unbelievable. I never thought I would see him do something like that. His style is boring, and people are happy their is excitement back in the heavyweight division, but i never had ill opinions of Wlad the person until I saw that fight.
he was fighting an undefeated huge puncher and ate his shots like they were nothing. whyte will be champ within 2 years and the rematch will sell 2 million ppvs.
Must be from the UK, I assume your talking about UK PPV. Saturday night is World Championship boxing on HBO.
Well anybody who knows about his amateur career and not just his Olympic games knows that he doesn't react well to a shot.
He did well on Saturday in that he managed to compose himself and get to boxing but luckily for him he was in with another inexperienced fighter who was gassing, so he could find time to compose himself. Joshua was also looking tired at times. A better fighter and more experienced fighter wouldn't have let him off the hook. If that was an excellent finisher like Haye, Joshua wouldn't have seen the end of round two, i'm sure about that.
Also, it wasn't just his chin, he looked like he was being hurt to the body too a couple of times.
Excellent point, his body looked suspect.
He is certainly top heavy, i think they should stop the bodybuilding, geezer put on 25 pounds lean since his first pro fight. I'm a huge fan but come on now!
Normally I would say its impossible to gain that much muscle mass. Thats more weight than Barry Bonds gained.
How observant, you must be a detective.
But seriously, it's a well known topic that's been covered numerous times here.
no, something is afoot here, no question about it. The Cotto scorecards were an insult, thats why Cotto was upset.
You can never please boxing fans, Joshua is a prospect at HW. A weight where one punch can do anything to a big man.
It's not about pleasing us, this is how boxing is, and has been forever. People are incredibly critical of up and coming prospects, especially fighters that could potentially be heavyweight champion. It's not personal, nature of the beast.
I re-watched it last night and i didn't find that Joshua was in as much danger as i thought while watching it live.
He ate a good shoot that buzzed him, and he also ate body shots that almost had him at a stand still. He recovered quickly though and went on to regain control and take over the fight as he had done in the first.
Credit to Whyte, he came to fight, wasn't scared of Joshua and showed a great chin.
The fight turned out really good for Joshua i feel. He needed that to happen.
It will help him in the long run.
Your right, and your wrong. He was in trouble, he was just wasn't in with an elite level finisher. I give the opponent his respect, but he is a C class fighter. Big Ortiz could have finished Joshua in that state, and i don't even consider him top 8
Wait, what, Joshua won right?
anybody who knows anything about boxing know that how you win matters just as much, people lose stock all the time for questionable performances in a winning effort.
People are overating the division a bit by saying a good fighter would have finished him off.
Sure a Tyson or Lewis would have put him away in that 2nd round for sure even a prime Haye maybe but I'm nit sure thweres that quality of finishers out there right now.
As far as the chin check goes, this is heavyweoght boxing you are going to get hurt when you get hit thats a given, you need to be able to survive and recover.
I mean did Holyfield fail the chin check against Bert Cooper or Ali against Henry Cooper ? (Dam those Coopers hit hard!)
Needs to learn alot more sure but silly to write him off when he showed alot of good traits in that fight.
Good point, however, we now know he is human, and if you consider boxing, and the marketing of it, that hurts. If GGG had been wobbled by DL, ad punished to the body over the course of rounds, it would have affected his credibility.
I wouldnt say he didnt pass it, i say he freezes when he gets hurt similiar to Bruno. He came back well, kept his composure during the fight, however Dillian simply didnt throw the right shots.
Whyte got too caught up in destroying Joshua, he forgot to compose himself, throw the short shots inside and measure his long shots on the outside, which in turn allowed Joshua to re compose himself.
Pros;
Solid power - Whyte fell the full force of it
Composed himself - during the attack on him
Went 7 rounds (still wary about his stamina)
Cons;
Stamina - Whyte simply gassed himself too so was easier for him to keep energy
Footwork- after he got hit, he looked amatuerish in his approach
Range of punches with a moving target- he seems to throw the 1-2 over and over again, need more variety.
Needs to remould his body- that extra muscle is not doing him favours, slim the upperbody and then youll have a more complete fighter
He needs fluidity in his movement, its ok when the opponent is not on his level, but at world level someone will put him out unless he works on these things IMO. Slim down, gain stamina and ring experience which he CAN STILL DO!
Hes only 26, no more talk of Fury, **** if Haye has anything left, hell do a job on him, i saw him chomping at the bit in the commentary haha.
If he turns out to be as overrated as Frank Bruno was, I will be incredibly disappointed.
What exactly is "the chin check"????? It's heavyweight boxing. Getting rocked is an occupational hazard.
Mike Tyson got rocked to his boots by Frank Bruno in their first fight, Ali got dropped like a sack of sh1t by Henry Cooper and was lucky not to be KOed.
I think that was the best thing to happen to Joshua in his career so far. He was far too overconfident after the first round with the smiling and sticking out his tongue.
Whyte taught him a very valuable lesson.
Lol Dirk, I have not been on this site in awhile, but you did cross my mind when I contributed this post. The chin check in theory is the way a fighter reacts the first time he is touched. Joshua failed, he does not have much athleticism in his legs to begin with, very stiff, and those legs went south when he was touched. I don't about know anyone else here, but I watch the legs when someone gets touched, and as one poster pointed out, Joshua froze, he stopped like he was being controlled by a remote.
Thats not good, to my eye test, he can be knocked out pretty easily.
Thats not how I felt going into Saturday night.