Dubblechin

I didn't post it to excuse anything. I'm not a fan of Hopkins. I was responding to the person who seemed not to know that Toney and Hopkins came close to fighting. Toney accepted the offer. Hopkins declined because he wanted more money. Hell, if Toney beats Lebedev, I'd like to see Toney and Hopkins fight next at cruiserweight. That's the only Hopkins fight that's ever interested me. And he backed out.

Hopkins career aside from defending that one vacant belt was very, very shallow. The quality of his opposition aside from Jones back in 1993 was dismal. It wasn't until 2005 that BHOP's legacy really had a HOF quality. Waiting until you're so old that any losses you receive don't really affect your public perception is really a cheap way to go. Its the same sh!t George Foreman did. I agree about what you said regarding Hopkins. But George Foreman? Are you kidding me? You think his early career record was "dismal" like Hopkins? By his 28th birthday, George Foreman had already won and lost the World Heavyweight Championship and had faced Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier (twice), Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, George Chuvalo and Jimmy Young. Foreman faced the top heavyweights of the early and mid 70s. Then he quit the ring for 10 years. If he'd never come back, he'd still be in the Hall of Fame. Don't compare him to Hopkins. It took Hopkins three tries just to win the Vacant IBF Middleweight belt.

Dude, I was talking about Foreman's career at 40. There was nothing for him to lose. i never referenced George's career prior to his career at 40. Nice to see that you are actually a fan, but that was completely unnecessary. You said Hopkins didn't step up his competition until he was so old he had nothing left to lose, and that Foreman had done the same thing. That's what I was commenting on. Foreman fought better competition when he was younger than he did when he was old. He had plenty to lose coming back. In fact, he was considered a complete joke when he came back and everyone said he was hurting his reputation ... until he beat Cooney and warred with Holyfield. That's why I said don't compare him to Hopkins, because, like you said, Hopkins didn't take risks until he got older. He didn't become a Hall of Fame possibility until he stepped up whe he approached 40 and took more risks.

Is Thread starter an idiot or just trolling? Hopkins and RJJ were both nororious in not letting the bout happen. Moreso RJJ because he wanted a 60-40 Split. As for Toney ? Toney was at CW then HW.. What's the matter with this forum. Bunch of idiots. Bernard Hopkins called out James Toney in 2003 after Toney defeated Vasili Jirov. Hopkins wanted to move up to light heavyweight and he wanted Toney to move down from cruiserweight. HBO offered them $4 million to fight. Toney said fine. Hopkins turned it down. So Hopkins ended up defending against William Joppy and Toney moved up to heavyweight and knocked out Holyfield. Hopkins Insulted By HBO's Offer Hopkins: "The Toney fight probably won't happen!" May 08, 2003; Undisputed middleweight champ, Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins informed **********.com that talks of a potential fight against IBF cruiserweight king, James "Lights-Out" Toney have taken a sudden turn for the worse. This comes following HBO's offer for the fight, which according to Hopkins, is between $3-4 million for both combatants to split. Hopkins feels this offer is an insult, and a blatant slap in the face, but it doesn't surprise him one bit. The middleweight champ and his promoter Don King feel that HBO is passing on an opportunity to drag themselves out of the mud, obviously referring to the mismatches that the "heart and soul of boxing" has been punishing us with. Read on to see how Hopkins feels about the Toney fight, HBO's offer, and more. Bernard Hopkins: The fight probably won't happen. When they're (HBO) offering $2-3 million for Bernard Hopkins to fight a guy 30 lbs heavier, which I think is something that the world needs to know right away. I wanted to deal with this through the public to express what they say, so everyone could be abreast on it, and so Bernard Hopkins, the fighter, won't be the grass on the ground when two elephants get to fighting. Because when two elephants fight, the only thing that gets hurt is the grass. Since I'm the grass, the powers that be are trying to go at each other's wallets, pockets or throats. I don't want to be the guy that caused the fight not to happen, so as I sit here not with Don King, listening to me doing this interview with you, I'm telling you right now that the numbers that are being given to Don King are not even in the ballpark, I could tell you right now that I'm not an ass-kisser and I'm not a gopher, but this ain't Don King's fault. I heard the phone calls, and I listened, and I've been here (Florida). Forget all the things you might hear as days go on, and I'm not saying forget like that ain't true or not true, but that's why I wanted to have an open forum, through the media and through everybody, so I won't suffer the consequences of media bashing. GL: HBO made that offer? BH: Yes. HBO made the offer that there's no more than $3-4 million to split up between me and Toney. My thing is this, I'm going to go back home to my wife. Our daughter got asthma and she's sick. I want to get back as quickly as possible. And again, Don is doing what he has to do and I sat here and witnessed it. I'm saying right now that it's not going to get done. Do negotiations go through this? Yes. Could it be different tomorrow? Yes. But I'm not going to go through this and continue to fly out here and cut in to Don's time. I gotta life. I got things to do, but I don't know if I could take a vacation with my wife, who desperately needs one, because it's not easy dealing with Bernard Hopkins all the time. I'm not dealing with this ****, I want to know where I'm going, and I want to know what my summers going to be. I'm willing to make the fight. I first put the challenge out with you, you went with the story. Don loves it, he's getting many feedbacks from it. With me and Toney, you got two of the toughest guys in the sport, both guys from inner cities, James Toney pulls out guns at press conferences, could you imagine what the press conferences would be like? GL: Based on the fact that HBO has been broadcasting so many mismatches. BH: (cutting me off) I know where you're getting at. Is it a slap in the face? Yes, Don brought that up. I'll repeat what Don told Mark (Taffet) and all of the guys at HBO. He told them that lately, they've not been putting good fights on PPV. And this is a chance to sort of drag themselves out of the mud, by giving the fans something they should've been getting a long time ago. They have a chance to redeem themselves and this how you do that without paying a ransom. This isn't a ransom offer or proposal Don is giving these guys. I think it's personal, Kery (Davis) says it's not to my attorney. But I don't want to be left as the grass under the two elephants fighting. I don't want to be left as a scapegoat, and have the puppets sitting back saying, 'you see, he did it again." There are puppet reporters who will still come out and write that. But Greg, I'm glad your honest. I feel that it's a slap in my face, but what do I expect? I expected this. GL: Since the Toney fight is not looking good, have you and Don discussed the Joppy fight? BH: We didn't even get to the Joppy fight. I wanted to move right with this (Toney) fight, but we're gonna get to the Joppy fight now, because I think that should be most important right now because that's my mandatory. I want to get that done, and if they have offered this money to fight James Toney, I could imagine what they're gonna offer to fight William Joppy. What are they gonna do? Offer me $300,000?

lol... poor guy, knitpicking on firstly, a LEDERMAN scored round, and secondly, being lulled by simply an odd scored round by just two guys... do you watch scorecards, or whats occuring in the ring in front of your eyes!!?? why dont you take ALL official judges and all idiot lederman and ringside 'elie seckback' type judges TOTAL OF ROUNDS SCORED and then TOTAL OF ROUNDS SCORED FOR FLOYD youll see it was lopsided Larry Merchant is 80 years old. Harold Lederman is 70 years old. Emanuel Steward is 67 years old. And "the kid" Jim Lampley is 62 years old. If they didn't have jobs at HBO, they would have a hard time getting jobs at any company -- with the exception of WalMart ... where they'd be encouraged to work as greeters because they're too old to be trusted with the cash registers. The HBO team is OLD. They are biased. They are set in their ways. Before most fights, they will actually tell you how they "expect" a fight will go. And if it doesn't go the way they expect it to, it takes them several rounds to recognize what it actually happening in the ring and comment on it. If you didn't look at the television screen and just listened to their commentary, you would have no idea at all what is going on in the ring. They spend most rounds telling stories or talking about the way a fighter "usually" fights or things a fighter did in a previous fight ... and little if anything about what's actually happening in front of them at that moment. HBO needs to overhaul it's entire broadcast team. You don't need four guys -- who collectively clock in at close to 300 years old. You can do it with ONE person. Or two people at the most. People who still like boxing. Who are excited. People who haven't "seen it all" and can still be genuinely happy to be there at ringside. More importantly, people who are willing to do their homework. If a guy hasn't stood in the ring in front of Larry Merchant or Jim Lampley and fought, there's a good chance they've never seen him before. You don't see them at ringside for other bouts. They don't attend shows they aren't paid to attend. They don't scout new talent. Unless it's a "superfight," Merchant and Lampley come off looking like it's chore that they had to show up and cover the event ... and give the impression (especially Merchant) that they'd rather be somewhere else. When that is the case, it's time to bring in new blood.

They obviously were watching the fight while you just saw what you wanted to see.... Dispute this, five clean shots land here http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z466/Baz00ka1/4ca5f1fcd0ddf23b8af05457a2eab938.gif Frankly, I could care less about this fight. I'm not a fan of either fighter. I'm talking about all HBO telecasts. They were actually "awake" (for them) during this fight because it was a "big" event. Most nights, you don't get even half as much interest from them. The team of Lampley and Merchant peaked around 1990. For the past 21 years, we've witnessed the downside. When your broadcast team is made up of an 80-year-old, 70-year-old, 67-year-old and a 62-year-old, you don't have guys performing at their best. They were better many, many, many years ago.

It's true. Tim Witherspoon had an excellent overhand right. It's also true that the Klitschkos are reigning during a weak period in the heavyweight division. But Witherspoon reigned during a weak period, too, and he only managed one successful title defense (a come-from-behind win over Bruno). While the Klitschkos have dominated for years. Like most Klitschko challengers, Witherspoon's only chance against either brother would be to win by knockout. Meaning, he'd have very little chance to win. I don't think Vitali holding his hands low would matter. Greg Page held his hands low throughout his career, and Witherspoon never came close to knocking him out either time they fought.

Tavoris Cloud, Gennady Golovkin, Marcos Maidana

Andre Ward won the gold medal in the 2004 Olympics in the 178-pound weight division. He's one of those guys who is a natural "cruiserweight" who sweats down to super middle for weigh-ins and then rehydrates back up to 180+ pounds. He had to fight at 178 in the Olympics because he had to weigh-in the day of every fight. That was his natural weight SEVEN years ago. He competed in the same division in the Olympics that Muhammad Ali, Leon Spinks, and Evander Holyfield did before him. Any thought of Ward fighting Sergio Martinez is a joke. Truthfully, he should be fighting at Light Heavyweight and Cruiserweight. He's just been taking advantage of the day-prior weigh-ins to fight in the lower divisions.

Are you James Kirland? You need to chill. One step at a time. I've been waiting for Pac vs May for ages, that has to me made. What do you mean, I need to chill? There is ONE Mayweather-Kirkland thread on this entire board, compared to the number of threads discussing the other match. The people talking about Mayweather-Pacquiao are the ones who need to chill, because it is NEVER happening. How long does it take for you guys to get that? And Pacquaio isn't fighting Mayweather in May. Arum is negotiating with others. Meanwhile, Mayweather offered the May fight to Morales, which sounds terrible. I want to see competitive fights. I'm sick of debating negotiations. Mayweather-Kirkland is a very competitive matchup. Either guy could win. Let's see it in May. Everyone would watch it.

so in other words, you don't want Floyd fighting Manny? Kirkland's a nice style but no way, Jose. Floyd should fight Manny next. There are a thousand threads on that subject. Feel free to chime in on them or create yet another thread on the topic. This thread is about Floyd Mayweather fighting James Kirkland next. It's a wonderful style matchup and it's a fight that won't take years to get made. All it will take is one phone call.

I simply asked who, in your opinion should mannys fight next. simple question no need for titangraph. so who do you think Manny should fight next? Sergio Martinez? I don't care who he fights next. My guess is, if they can't get Marquez, they'll match him with someone beatable, because he just had a rough fight. (Someone smaller than him.) If I have further comments, I'll create a Manny Pacquiao should fight NAME OF THE FIGHTER HERE thread. This thread is about Floyd Mayweather fighting James Kirkland in May.

did you believe the Matt Hatton and Spadafora rumors as well? He may be, but I doubt HBO would accept those opponents. They would accept James Kirkland in an instant. That's why I said it could be made easily in an afternoon.

Kirkland has unfinished business with Ishida before this fight can be acceptable. He also needs one more good win, preferably a title fight. I disagree. That's the problem with boxing. People put all these arbitrary roadblocks in front of good matches. Mayweather-Kirkland is a great matchup right now. Nothing wrong with it at all. And it's easily made. Why does Kirkland have to win a title first? I thought alphabet titles were meaningless? Why does he have to beat Ishida first? Did Andy Lee beating Brian Vera change everyone's perception of him? Vera's win is still valid. It erased nothing. It's just one more fight in the way of a better fight. I'm so sick of fights being pushed back until other fights happen first. I just want to see good matchups. If they can be made now, make them. People make this sh*t way more complicated than it needs to be.

doubt it. a canelo fight is more interesting, IMO. or a rematch with el perro If you don't think Mayweather-Kirkland is an interesting fight and is easily made, then you aren't a boxing fan. And Canelo isn't going to jump up his competition level from Ricky Hatton's BROTHER to Floyd Mayweather. They're going to ride that gravy train for years before they match him with anyone who can beat him. James Kirkland's people will take Mayweather in a second. They have no idea how long Kirkland's going to be a factor at the top.

I rather see the huge fight first to end all the idiotic topics on chickens, ducking, etc etc. how will Kirkland sell to the casuals? everything you can say about him will be believed by most when talking about Manny. its not a reward, its closure on all the BS. you really can't fault Pac for having Arum hold a grudge on Floyd. Manny has earned his paydays, regardless of jmm III Are you Manny Pacquiao? This isn't a Pacquiao thread. This isn't a Canelo thread. This is a Floyd Mayweather should fight James Kirkland thread.

I'm a boxing fan, not a fan of business negotiations. After three years of "it's his fault, no it's his fault" ... I'm done. I hate that there are hundreds of threads talking about whose fault it is the "big" fight hasn't been made. Leave the drama for the build-up and the actual fight. If Floyd offered a fight to James Kirkland, I'm sure he'd take it. They could make that fight in one afternoon. Floyd has a date set. Offer the fight to a competitive, hungry challenger who will accept the offer.

Would be good. But one step at a time. Let's get a Mayweather vs Pac fight off the ground. Well, it looks like Pacquiao's team is looking elsewhere, so Floyd should pick Kirkland. I'm sure James Kirkland would take that fight.

yeah, no interest in that bout. I want to see May vs Manny. shame you don't, as a real boxing fan. WHO SAID I DIDN'T? I SAID I'M SICK OF DISCUSSING NEGOTIATIONS FOR THREE F*CKING YEARS! I WANT COMPETITIVE FIGHT THAT CAN GET MADE. Can you READ?

so in other words, you don't want Floyd fighting Manny? Kirkland's a nice style but no way, Jose. Floyd should fight Manny next. Why do you keep saying "in other words" and bringing up Pacquiao? This isn't a Pacquaio thread. I've commented on every board on the internet for years about that matchup and I've had enough. Superfights often don't get made. Young fans don't seem to realize that. But they don't. Instead of making the thousandth thread on why they should, I'm talking in this thread about Floyd fighting James Kirkland. Everyone would watch it. The build-up would be highly entertaining. It's a classic style matchup. And it could be made easily. So, let's see it.

I would rather see Kirkland vs Mayweather, this fight can and will sell Kirkland is young aggressive and a southpaw, bigger, and with Wolfe seems like a beast. I think it would be a great match, but again this is a business, how will it sell? I think it would sell just fine. Ortiz had NO following until he beat Berto in a great fight. And Ortiz has zero personality. Kirkland has had a core following for years, and his fight with Angulo was wild. And he and Wolfe would "out ghetto" the Mayweathers in any prefight show. I'm sure Mayweather would consider Kirkland no tougher than Ortiz, but Kirkland wouldn't apologize if he headbutted Mayweather, either. And he is much more aggressive than Ortiz. This might be a case of the "bullies" (The Mayweathers) getting outbullied.

I'm sure Floyd would be confident he could stop Kirkland, and I'm sure Kirkland and Wolfe would believe James' pressure would wear Floyd out. Seems like a great style matchup.

this ^^^^^ They aren't going to fight. If they were going to, they would have. Lots of superfights never get made. It happens. Floyd has a date reserved. Offer it to Kirkland. He'll take it. The two have a lot in common -- problems with the law, overbearing crass trainers -- and a lot of differences (Mayweather's wealth and women, Kirkland's sparce existence). Stylewise, it could be an Ali-Frazier-type matchup. They are both still young enough it could evolve into multiple fights. Let's see them make it.

yes I am. errrr ummm wanna u talk errrmm to my errm promoter? lol @ out ghetto. no way, Jose. no one can out Hood the mayweather team. Anne Wolfe could not only out-ghetto Uncle Roger and Floyd Senior, I'd take her to beat both of their asses on the stage during the weigh-in. It's hard to maintain street cred when you've been living in mansions for the better part of your life. The Mayweathers would be exposed for the posers they are when faced with people who are actually trying to fight their way out.

Stupid, stupid fight. You guys rip on Pac for fighting guys like Cotto and Margarito but for a fight like this? Floyd would destroy this dude, offensively AND defensively. Kirkland would get KO'ed again, no matter how hard Ann Wolfe trains him. There's nothing stupid about it. Kirkland just demolished the top rated WBC junior middleweight contender. He's got a style that would mesh well with Mayweather's style and provide fans with an entertaining bout -- much moreso than Andre Berto or Devon Alexander, who are frontrunners for a Mayweather fight. Nobody is going to outbox Mayweather. You're going to have to get him into a war of attrition. Kirkland can do that. Berto won't. Alexander won't. Spadafora won't. Morales won't. Ricky Hatton's brother won't. And it can easily be made.

I would be a decent fight. But, it simply won't appeal to a mass audience and won't really sell. So I can't see it happening. I think Golden Boy are aiming to get Canelo a belt and put him in there with Mayweather. Why wouldn't it be appealing? Explain why? Except for the De La Hoya fight, all of Mayweather's PPVs tend to sell around the same. I think all the same people who watch Mayweather fights would watch Mayweather-Kirkland. And the prefight would be more entertaining than most, which couldn't hurt.

And who exactly should Manny fight next? Who cares. This is a Floyd Mayweather should fight James Kirkland thread.

No title no interest...... Mayweather carries a hundred belts into the ring with him every time he fights, it doesn't matter. Are you saying you only watch when a title is on the line? I doubt that.

That following was invisible going into the Angulo fight, infact there was like 8 of us who thought Kirkland would win That's about as many followers and believers Ortiz had before he fought Berto. Kirkland is a viable name with full HBO support. He's 30-1 with 27 knockouts. He's bigger and stronger than Mayweather. He's got a style that meshes with Mayweather's. He's got a story that would work well in contrast to Mayweather's. Kirkland has the style to land power shots and he has the strength to bully Mayweather, and Floyd has the power in his right to drop Kirkland. Mayweather would be the favorite (then again he'll be the favorite against everyone he faces), but Kirkland would be a live dog.

Still waiting for a response to this post by those who think its because of race and color most find the heavyweights boring. Anyone? I think the belief began when HBO President Ross Greenburg said he didn't have any interest in televising Klitschko fights - not because they were boring, but because "Americans couldn't tell them apart." He didn't care if they were good fights or bad fights, he just had no interest in them. Then he said "I think if we had a strong American heavyweight champion it would do wonders for American boxing." He didn't say "exciting" American heavyweight. He based it on nationality. Hell, if a German television network announced it would no longer televise the Super Middleweight division because Germans couldn't tell Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell apart and then he said he thought a "Top German Super Middleweight" would do wonders - and they'd definitely televise the top German's super middleweight's fights ... some Americans might find that a "tad" bit racist. HBO used to be about televising the best fighters - Roy Jones and Whitaker used to bore people to sleep because they were so dominant. HBO didn't refuse to air their fights. You can count the number of competitive, exciting Andre Ward fights on maybe one finger. Same with Chad Dawson. Yet HBO is excited about airing a matchup between those two. So just claiming someone is "Too Dominant" or dull doesn't make sense either. HBO never said they were going to stop airing heavyweight fights because they were dull. They said they wanted to wait "for an American" heavyweight. HBO is all about building "American" stars. Hell, when Amir Khan was knocked out a couple weeks ago, they said at the end of the telecast that Khan losing "was good for boxing." Khan losing wasn't good for boxing - it was good for an American network that televises boxing, so they didn't have to haul their cameras to England for fights. Whether your biased based on race or nationality, it doesn't matter. It's still bias. http://www.*********.com/Boxing/hbo-exec-klitschkos-confuse-fans-40017 One of the reasons IBF/WBO/IBO heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko’s defense of the unified heavyweight title against Philadelphia’s Eddie Chambers won’t be televised in the United States is that HBO executives believe U.S. fight fans can’t tell the difference between Wladimir and his brother, WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko. “For a while, Wladimir was hell-bent on maintaining a presence in the United States, and we were starting to break through with him,” Ross Greenburg, president of HBO Sports, told ESPN. “Unfortunately, at the same time, his brother decided to come back, so that kind of confused the consumer again in the United States. People have trouble differentiating.” The 51,000+ in attendance and 110 countries that ARE televising the world heavyweight championship fight have managed to differentiate between the brothers. What about you? http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=5347178 The division Greenburg is not interested in is heavyweight. Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali Klitschko are fine champions, he said, but there is a lack of interest in them in the United States, meaning a lack of interest in them from HBO. "I'm really souring on the heavyweights," Greenburg said. "There doesn't seem to be any interest in the U.S. and there doesn't seem to be any heavyweights besides David Haye who would have any juice in challenging the Klitschkos. We're out of the heavyweight division. We're not playing in that sandbox right now. It doesn't make any sense for us. The fights happen over there , they're on tape delay. There is just very little interest in this country." Greenburg said HBO won't make an offer for Wladimir's September fight with Alexander Povetkin. "We made a decision ," Greenburg said. What about doing Vitali's next fight in the fall? "Nope," he said. "The heavyweights have clearly lost their edge in the United States. I think we have enough stars in the lower weight divisions to get us through a down period for heavyweights. I think if we had a strong American heavyweight champion it would do wonders for American boxing, but it's just a dream at this point." Other than a Klitschko against Haye, or one of those three against Tomasz Adamek, Greenburg said he doesn't see any heavyweights HBO is interested in. "Other than that, we'll take a pass," he said. "It would be great if the Klitschkos came over here and reignited some interest in this division. It's tough to continually go over there. I understand their financials. I know how big they are in Germany and they will continue to fight over there. I understand the economics of their business."