Andre Ward vs Sergio Martinez

Ward flattens Martinez.

martinez aint really too small, he's just too scared..the man was around 176 30 days before the pwill rematch meaning he walks around 180ish....

Andre Ward won the gold medal in the 2004 Olympics in the 178-pound weight division. He's one of those guys who is a natural "cruiserweight" who sweats down to super middle for weigh-ins and then rehydrates back up to 180+ pounds. He had to fight at 178 in the Olympics because he had to weigh-in the day of every fight. That was his natural weight SEVEN years ago. He competed in the same division in the Olympics that Muhammad Ali, Leon Spinks, and Evander Holyfield did before him. Any thought of Ward fighting Sergio Martinez is a joke. Truthfully, he should be fighting at Light Heavyweight and Cruiserweight. He's just been taking advantage of the day-prior weigh-ins to fight in the lower divisions.

Ward would dominate Martinez.

You should follow what ive been saying with how I regard p4p. Pac has done more in the p4p department, inclluding murking a man 20 lbs heavier than him on fight night. If floyd beats pacquiao, no doubt he would be the better boxer, but he is a natural WW, and could easily compete in the LMW. Not saying it wouldnt be a possibility for me to consider floyd as #1 p4p if he murked manny, but considering the work that pac has put in, in beating guys way bigger than him, i might still be inclined to give him the p4p crown. Again, i seperate best in the division, and p4p. Being best in your division doesnt qualify you as p4p imo, it just means you are not a sh!tty fighter, which you are not supposed to be. You have to do something extraordinary to give any significance to your weight, hence p4p. And people think manny has a shot against martinez? Better yet, people think manny has a shot against cotto? etc. Ya, and pacquiao doesnt have a chance in hell against Cotto. Hes just too big, theres no way he could hurt him. Has nothing to do with size. Martinez is not a good enough fighter to beat Ward. Ward would completely shut him down and embarrass him.

It's like Anderson Silva vs GSP.. While theoretically would be good fight, the bigger guy is much bigger! Ward could go to 175 easily where as Martinez can't really go beyond 160 I'd favor Ward even if they were the same size, but Martinez is probably too small to be moving up an extra 8 pounds. He fought as a jr middleweight in his last fight. Martinez said he'd consider 164, but I doubt Ward is interested in that because he's already talking about fighting at light heavyweight. They're plenty close enough in size. Ward is only 2 inches taller than Martinez but Sergio enjoys a 4 inch reach advantage on Ward. Lucian Bute is another nice style match I'd like to see for Martinez. Again Sergio is shorter (3 & 1/2 inches) but enjoys a 2 inch reach advantage. Considering the size of the 2 guys he's calling out Sergio Martinez is well within acceptable size difference to fight both Ward and Bute @ 168. Will probably never happen, but I'd love to see it. :boxing:

are you sure ward weighs 170-180 on fight night? i don't remember seeing numbers, showtime hasn't been showing them from what i can remember. either way, if that is what he weighs, martinez' career isn't known for going up and fighting bigger guys. like many say, martinez is considered a rather small middleweight. and again, not all p4p fighters fight bigger guys so not all of them should be held to that standard. we know pac's limit is WW since he can't even come in at the scales at 147, martinez himself never came in at 160, but both weigh above the limit on fight night. the idea of pac fighting guys 10 or so lbs bigger than him can't be transferred to his opponents because that's not what they're known for a or built a rep on, even though it does seem fair to be able say that. my thing is when martinez says can he be the same size as margarito on the scales and on fight night, saying "martinez is picking on smaller guys" isn't fair because that smaller guy dealt with guys martinez' size. No, im not sure. Im fairly confident the size discrepency wouldnt be as bad as pac-marg tho. edit: might be as bad, but if martinez really is a beast (p4p), then he should be able to hold his own and make it competetive, even hurt ward.

But if Floyd dominates Pacquiao and shows that his skills are so much superior that if he was 3-4 lbs smaller it would be the same outcome, how can you still consider Pac a better P4P fighter? :thinking: You should follow what ive been saying with how I regard p4p. Pac has done more in the p4p department, inclluding murking a man 20 lbs heavier than him on fight night. If floyd beats pacquiao, no doubt he would be the better boxer, but he is a natural WW, and could easily compete in the LMW. Not saying it wouldnt be a possibility for me to consider floyd as #1 p4p if he murked manny, but considering the work that pac has put in, in beating guys way bigger than him, i might still be inclined to give him the p4p crown. Again, i seperate best in the division, and p4p. Being best in your division doesnt qualify you as p4p imo, it just means you are not a sh!tty fighter, which you are not supposed to be. You have to do something extraordinary to give any significance to your weight, hence p4p. How does anyone think this fight is interesting? Martinez has no shot. And people think manny has a shot against martinez? Better yet, people think manny has a shot against cotto? etc. Martinez has absolutely no chance at SMW, so we should just drop that discussion already lol Ya, and pacquiao doesnt have a chance in hell against Cotto. Hes just too big, theres no way he could hurt him.

Martinez has absolutely no chance at SMW, so we should just drop that discussion already lol

How does anyone think this fight is interesting? Martinez has no shot.

If Martinez really wants to be the #1 P4P fighter in the world and make a huge impact this is the only big fight he can get at the moment because he is not getting Mayweather, Pacquiao or Cotto. Problem is Ward would be too much for Martinez.

I just thought about that, but my opinion still kinda stands. I consider mayweather to be a full 147lber, more than capable of moving up to 154 and competing. I dont consider manny to be a full 147, but more like a 142-144lber. If the fights at 150, ya hell come in at 147, but if its at 147, hell come in at about 142, what he's comfortable at. But if Floyd dominates Pacquiao and shows that his skills are so much superior that if he was 3-4 lbs smaller it would be the same outcome, how can you still consider Pac a better P4P fighter? :thinking:

I dont think martinez would fight Ward. Andres too big. Would be nice though if they did.

There are more similarities than you are giving credit. Lets say the pac-martinez fight took place at 150. Pac would probably weigh in around there, martinez would obviously make the limit. Fight night pac would weigh 152-155 at best, martinez would be 160-165. about a 10 lb difference. Now a fight between martinez-ward, lets say at 165. Martinez would weigh in around there, ward would make the limit. Fight night martinez would weigh around 165-170, ward 170-180, about a 10lb difference. (im not exactly sure what wards or martinez fight night weights are, but its the same principle, it will be close, about 10 lbs. With both fights, there is about a 10 lb difference that will be shown on fight night. For pac, its expected that its okay, as hes a beast, a true p4p. For martinez, its an unreasonable request, as ward would be 'too big'. Im ending up saying the same things, i just broke it down, and probabbly will not be too inclined to reply. just some food for thought. Ones a beast who will, and does, fight bigger people, and the other...cant? are you sure ward weighs 170-180 on fight night? i don't remember seeing numbers, showtime hasn't been showing them from what i can remember. either way, if that is what he weighs, martinez' career isn't known for going up and fighting bigger guys. like many say, martinez is considered a rather small middleweight. and again, not all p4p fighters fight bigger guys so not all of them should be held to that standard. we know pac's limit is WW since he can't even come in at the scales at 147, martinez himself never came in at 160, but both weigh above the limit on fight night. the idea of pac fighting guys 10 or so lbs bigger than him can't be transferred to his opponents because that's not what they're known for a or built a rep on, even though it does seem fair to be able say that. my thing is when martinez says can he be the same size as margarito on the scales and on fight night, saying "martinez is picking on smaller guys" isn't fair because that smaller guy dealt with guys martinez' size.

"being good in your div. doesn't give significance to your weight" i don't get that wording. being good in your division doesn't prove you belong on the p4p list? again, look at bradley, the klitscko bros and wonjongkam. again, proving to be p4p worthy doesn't mean you have to fight guys bigger than you or in different divisions. ward and martinez aren't "pretty much close to the same weight" at all. martinez' fight night weight (165) is less than ward's weigh in weight (168), so i don't get how you can think this. i'm saying they're not that bigger in the sense that their fight night weight wouldn't be that much of a difference to pac's. but since they decided not to show them, i guess you stand correct. the fact is pac beats guys that weigh 147+, and the most we know is 165 (margarito) so how can martinez, a guy who has shown he weighs 165 on fight night, asking for the same catchweight fight be wrong? There are more similarities than you are giving credit. Lets say the pac-martinez fight took place at 150. Pac would probably weigh in around there, martinez would obviously make the limit. Fight night pac would weigh 152-155 at best, martinez would be 160-165. about a 10 lb difference. Now a fight between martinez-ward, lets say at 165. Martinez would weigh in around there, ward would make the limit. Fight night martinez would weigh around 165-170, ward 170-180, about a 10lb difference. (im not exactly sure what wards or martinez fight night weights are, but its the same principle, it will be close, about 10 lbs. With both fights, there is about a 10 lb difference that will be shown on fight night. For pac, its expected that its okay, as hes a beast, a true p4p. For martinez, its an unreasonable request, as ward would be 'too big'. Im ending up saying the same things, i just broke it down, and probabbly will not be too inclined to reply. just some food for thought. Ones a beast who will, and does, fight bigger people, and the other...cant?

and i clarified that by saying your's (and most everybody elses) p4p rankings dont mean sh!t to me. You're either good in your division, or your ****ty. But being good in your division doesnt give and significance to your weight. I am making sense, you are just not liking the idea of me asking martinez to prove his p4p title. NOW...leave pacquiao out of this. The point, lets get martinez and ward to 'pretty much close to the same weight'. "being good in your div. doesn't give significance to your weight" i don't get that wording. being good in your division doesn't prove you belong on the p4p list? again, look at bradley, the klitscko bros and wonjongkam. again, proving to be p4p worthy doesn't mean you have to fight guys bigger than you or in different divisions. ward and martinez aren't "pretty much close to the same weight" at all. martinez' fight night weight (165) is less than ward's weigh in weight (168), so i don't get how you can think this. I guess i can consider them the bigger man? Brah....they are bigger men. And then you provide a weight for pac a week(s) prior to a fight, yet dont want to provide that information for clottey, cotto, or marg? i'm saying they're not that bigger in the sense that their fight night weight wouldn't be that much of a difference to pac's. but since they decided not to show them, i guess you stand correct. the fact is pac beats guys that weigh 147+, and the most we know is 165 (margarito) so how can martinez, a guy who has shown he weighs 165 on fight night, asking for the same catchweight fight be wrong?

you just said in your previous post "p4p ranking hasn't meant shit TO ME" but now "i keep special significance to the word". again, you're not making sense. not every fighter skips around weight classes and collects belts. just because pacquiao did it doesn't mean everyone should be held to that same basis. if pacquiao has taken on the challenge of fighting a guy who weighs 165 on fight night and completely dominated him, why can't he do it again? not saying he has to, but i mean mayweather just did. both guys are p4p, even better ranked than martinez, so how can that fight be wrong? and i clarified that by saying your's (and most everybody elses) p4p rankings dont mean sh!t to me. You're either good in your division, or your ****ty. But being good in your division doesnt give and significance to your weight. I am making sense, you are just not liking the idea of me asking martinez to prove his p4p title. NOW...leave pacquiao out of this. The point, lets get martinez and ward to 'pretty much close to the same weight'. wow, the two you mentioned (cotto and clottey), their fight night weights weren't shown, so i guess you can consider them "bigger" opponents. i kind of consider the same concept to donaire right now. nonito himself said he walks around at 140ish, but he obviously fights at 118 and now 122. so let's say when the time comes he moves up to featherweight or super featherweight (126-130), he necessarily won't be fighting bigger guys (most dudes in that weight class around his height). they'll probably weigh 1-5 lbs apart, i'll bet on it. same with pac, look at his fight night weight. you can see he's a guy that walks around at 140-150. even ariza said he was 153 a week before his clottey fight. http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/185431/sports/boxing/no-changes-in-pacquiao-fight-plan-against-clottey now with martinez/ward, what's ward's fight night weight? i can almost bet martinez doesn't weigh that much if he took a year off boxing. I guess i can consider them the bigger man? Brah....they are bigger men. And then you provide a weight for pac a week(s) prior to a fight, yet dont want to provide that information for clottey, cotto, or marg?

That was referring to how most peoples p4p list is just a word thrown out there, while i keep special significance to the word. Im not saying there is anything wrong with pac facing sergio, pac is a p4p fighter. Im saying transfer that concept to sergio vs andre, if sergio is any sort of p4p (to me) he should be able to hold his own. Hes a great fighter, no doubt, but he hasnt really proved too much to me in the p4p department. you just said in your previous post "p4p ranking hasn't meant shit TO ME" but now "i keep special significance to the word". again, you're not making sense. not every fighter skips around weight classes and collects belts. just because pacquiao did it doesn't mean everyone should be held to that same basis. if pacquiao has taken on the challenge of fighting a guy who weighs 165 on fight night and completely dominated him, why can't he do it again? not saying he has to, but i mean mayweather just did. both guys are p4p, even better ranked than martinez, so how can that fight be wrong? Pacquiao the "giant killer" :rofl: http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk282/amersdlbrd/PacquiaoWeights.jpg thanks for providing bro, i'd green k if i could. Cotto is a much bigger man, and yes he murked him. Clottey is a much bigger man, and yes, he murked him. Im not saying the catchweight b.s. isnt b.s., but pac has murked bigger men. Now lets just quit b.s'ing and get martinez and andre to 'pretty much the same size' wow, the two you mentioned (cotto and clottey), their fight night weights weren't shown, so i guess you can consider them "bigger" opponents. i kind of consider the same concept to donaire right now. nonito himself said he walks around at 140ish, but he obviously fights at 118 and now 122. so let's say when the time comes he moves up to featherweight or super featherweight (126-130), he necessarily won't be fighting bigger guys (most dudes in that weight class around his height). they'll probably weigh 1-5 lbs apart, i'll bet on it. same with pac, look at his fight night weight. you can see he's a guy that walks around at 140-150. even ariza said he was 153 a week before his clottey fight. At the moment, Ariza said Pacquiao weighs 153 pounds, six over the welterweight limit of 147. http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/185431/sports/boxing/no-changes-in-pacquiao-fight-plan-against-clottey now with martinez/ward, what's ward's fight night weight? i can almost bet martinez doesn't weigh that much if he took a year off boxing.

Pacquiao the "giant killer" :rofl: http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk282/amersdlbrd/PacquiaoWeights.jpg I didn't know Pacquiao fought De La Hoya at 145 pounds. And why did De La Hoya only rehydrate 2 pounds?? Pacquiao was actually the bigger guy that night. He outweighed DLH by a pound :dunno:

you think pac's murked bigger people? someone needs to see that pic that shows his fight night weight against opponents to show you that he's been pretty much close to the same size as his opponents for a while (excluding margarito). even then, dude challenged a 38 year old lightweight to a WW fight and got outbox. he's truly significant. Cotto is a much bigger man, and yes he murked him. Clottey is a much bigger man, and yes, he murked him. Im not saying the catchweight b.s. isnt b.s., but pac has murked bigger men. Now lets just quit b.s'ing and get martinez and andre to 'pretty much the same size'