Some people are definitely grasping at straws here. I think this comment can be attributed, at least slightly, to the language barrier. I htink by "I dont even know what a steroid is" what Pac is really tryign to say is "I dont even understand how a steroid actually would make me a better boxer, or how to go about using them". Obviously Pac is aware of the controversy steroids bring, but probably isnt aware of how they work. As a matter of fact I would bet half of the people accusing Pac of using steroids have no clue as to what an actual steroid is or how it works themselves, and wouldnt know what they were seeing if confronted with one, or even the difference between a steroid, a vitamin or a supplement. The objective facts are that 1. Pacquiao has never tested positive for steroids, just like Mayweather, just like Oscar, just like Hatton etc. etc. 2. Most of the 'evidence' against Pacquiao is something along the lines of "hes dominated in several weight classes, just like Mayweather, Oscar, Marquez, Adamek, Paul Williams etc. etc. It really seems absurd that one trainer, Mayweather Senior (who btw might be just slightly bitter that Hatton got starched by the Pacman under his tutelage) can make a accusation out of nothing, and now the whole boxing world is ready to give it weight. Pacquiao is refusing the testing because he doesnt want to give Mayweather that victory.
Personally, I agree with you, I would much rather that Manny had just come out with it, but he wants to be a darling in America, and that means not badmouthing popular American fighters (which I have to admit Floyd is at this time). I think that Team Pacquiao will most likely come out with a statement along the lines of " Well we are clean, and we dont have to agree to any of Mayweathers terms, but because we want the fight and the boxing public wants the fight, Manny has agreed to Floyd's silly testing" or something along those lines. It makes them look like they are on at least level playing field with camp Mayweather, while at the same time allying themselves iwth the boxing public, and saving some face in getting the fight made.
once again the penalty is there because in his very last fight, Floyd proved he is willing to come in overweight. Just like I dont fault Margarito's next opponent for being extra careful in checking his wraps, or Floyd for making sure Mosley is tested for PEDs, I don't blame Manny for wanted to make sure Floyd does come in at the contractual weight. I dont doubt Floyd can make 147, but if he wants people to trust that he will, he needs to demonstrate that by always making his contracted weight for fights. I mean, the entire Maywetaher-Marquez promotion was surrounded in controversy regarding the weight, to the point where there were articles a week before the fight discussing what weight the fight was even going to be held at, not exactly normal. If Pacquiao comes in overweight for Clottey I absolutely feel that he should be subjected to the same penalty n his next few fights at or around that weight.
I think what people are not recognizing is that all this post-negotiation posturing between the Mayweather and Pacquiao camps is a result of the fact that neither of them can actually come out and say that they arent agreeing to the others terms "Because they just dont want to." So now we have Floyd (unconvincingly) acting as the champion for "cleaning up the sport" and Pacquiao (also unconvincingly) coming up with reason after reason for refusing the testing. Pacquiao cannot realistically tell the American sports media, "I'm not agreeing to the testing because i dont like that ****er, and I wont play by his rules, not matter what", not if he wants to cross over into an American sports personality/star. Maywetaher can't sya "Just playin guys I really dont give a **** about testing if it isnt essential for negotiations." not if he wants to maintain his credibility. So you have these two guys playing out the roles they have been cast in. Now its also important to note that Mayweather has won this exchange, as im certain he inteded too. Beng Floyd Mayweather JR., there is no other fighter in the world, besides Pacquiao (and maybe Vlad Klitschko and Bernard Hopkins but they wont be fighting Floyd anytime soon) who can refuse Floyd's testing termsi n a fight contract. Therefore, Mayweather has nothing to lose by merely enforcing testing form here on out in his own fights. Pacquiao on the other hand now has some cleaning up of his image to do, which i think (at least in regards to accusations of PED abuse) is undeserved. If Pacquiao never accepts the terms and fights Mayweather he will have some explaining to do, so essentially hes going to have to accept the terms at some point. it will be interesting to see how team Pacquiao spins it, but regardless I think (and hope) the fight will get made later this year.
In a perfect world yeah. But I disagree.
Mayweather had no idea Pac would act like this over testing. No one did.I remember the thread that showed Pac accepting and everyone applauded him. Then when he pulled out everyone said he didnt have to do anything. Funny.
See thats exactly it though. I don't buy for a second that Mayweather actually wanted this fight to break up. He wanted it to play out where his camp could say "Manny Pacquiao will be taking a mandatory drug test as dictated by myself" and Manny Pacquiao would then be like" yes, I agree to the terms sert by camp Mayweather". In that scenario, it would be obvious that Mayweather is setting the terms of this fight, and therefore was the real champion in control. I dont think anyone can argue that mayweather doesnt use psychological pressure when dealing with perspective opponents, given his history. Now we have Mayweather essentially stuck with defending this so called 'cause' of his. You don't see mayweather demanding that Golden Boy, whom essentially promotes him have these kinds of tests for all their future events. You dont see him mentioning the undercard fighters undergoing the same testing. You dont see him calling out guys like Dan Goosen and Bob Arum over their not enforcing these kinds of tests in their fights, all of which you would expect if Maywetaher actually was championing this cause. On the flip side Pacquiao is not scrambling to justify his turning down the ifght, as he cant really say "Because i dont want to give Mayweather what he wants." That essentially makes him look petty and isnt helpful to hus image, as he is trying to break out in America as a sports star. So now we have both fighters stuck playing their assigned roles. Is the whole ordeal petty and stupid? yeah. Is it realistic for two top fighters with enough accomplishemnts to justify soem pretty big egos. Also yeah. So we'll have to see how it plays out but until then theres no reason to suspect Pacquiao of juicing, or Mayweather of "runnin scared".
To clarify the 'control' im talking about is not the actual administration of the drug test themselves (i dont think Floyd is going to follow Manny around with a cup goin, "and pee.....NOW!"). Instead, Im saying that Floyd wnats to control the terms/circumstances of the fight. Basically, if Manny submits to Olympic style testing, which is not required for a professional sanctioned prizefight to take place in the US, regardless if Floyd takes the same tests himself Manny will know he is taking the tests because Floyd demanded that he should. Thats the psychological/macho/ego control im talking about. Also on another note, Floyd JUST came in over his contractual weight, and not only did so, but did so with flagrant and blatant disregard, so I feel the harsh penalties for coming in overweight are not undeserved. They shouldnt even have to be in the contract, it should be understood that both fighters will come in to the weigh in at weight, but Floyd has demonstrated that if he requires it, he will disregard that consideration. I know Pacquiao has come in overwieght before, but I would argue that the fact it happened quite awhile ago, and that Pacquiao and Mayweather are both hard pressed to actually maintain 147lb musculature means that its highly unlikely that he (Pac) will come in overweight.
Trinidad? really? He's not exactly known for his ability to cope with speed, or combination punchers for that matter. Pacquiao has all that, and hes a lefty. Prime Trinidad definitely gives more problems than Margarito did tonight, but I would still pick the Pac that fought De la Hoya to prevail over Trinidad at welter
Victories over Ledwaba, Marquez, Morales, Barrera, De la Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito don't lie. The way he beat them, and his ascension through the weight classes is what makes it so special, yeah Margarito isn't Joe Louis, but he is a big, solid world champion class volume puncher who couldn't win a round with Pacquiao in his EIGHTH (granted there are alot of them these days) weight class, and I think that speaks for itself. I'm not a Floyd hater, but I am sick of his woulda, coulda shoulda, hes talked **** about Clottey, Margarito, Cotto, Williams, etc, meanwhile Manny Has been pounding on most of these guys. I think the Mayweather-Marquez fight was a circus, but i give Floyd credit for a solid win over Mosley, although that fight should have happened after Mosley first moved back down to welter. If Maywetaher wants to make an impression and really fight for the p4p crown he needs to beat Pac, or the Winner of Martinez-Williams, and he needs to do it convincingly.
Its not that Pacquiao beat Margarito (in his eight weight class) that makes him a candidate for top 5 ATG, its that he pounded on Margarito, AND Clottey AND Hatton AND De La Hoya AND Cotto, etc etc. People love to talk shot about Manny but name one thing he has done recently which wasnt noteworthy, or at least admirable? Who else should he have been fighting once the Mayweather fight collapsed then guys, im curious. Martinez and Williams, or someone solid at 140 are the only other options which would be memorable.
isnt that too much to ask for Manny fighting Williams or Martinez? i would support Manny if he fights those guys in a welterweight because 154 lbs would too much disadvantage for him. although i wouldnt count him out against those guys after tonights performance.
I agree in that it does seem like a lot to ask, but the idea is so tantalizing I would still love to see it made!
everytime I see Pac just run through a bigger man...sure it was no defense, slow as hell Margarito but everytime I see Pac absolutely pummel an opponent, a potential fight between him and Floyd gets more and more competitive in my mind...
Pac's punch arsenal from a lefty stance, his conditioning, footspeed, and warrior mindset would give Floyd the toughest fight of his career...
Pac isn't a thinking fighter like a lotta guys IMO, its instinct, if Floyd clocks him, Pac will throw whatever he's got at him to answer it back, and Floyd won't simply be able to get outta the way all the time...and he isn't gonna stop or get tired...Floyd would have to find a way to stop the madman cuz he isn't gonna outwork him...
Would be a hell of a fight...
I still think Floyd pulls it out but in the back of my mind, I know Pac has the ability and skills to do it...
Thoughts?
totally agree, a great matchup for both of them ,and they both need to make it happen. I wouldn't even care who own as long as they both fought at their best on fight night.
You obviously don't know Jack about boxing history.
Get the fuck off this site and never come back.
oh really? Pacquiao's current run is on par with guys like Harry Greb, Rocky Marciano, Benny Leonard, Jack Dempsey, etc. these are guys that are frequently considered in the top 10 ATG, and Pac has earned the right to be in the discussion with them, I still think he has a few more key fights to go before hes in with the like of Robinson, Pep, Louis, Armstrong etc. , hence top 5. So why don't you tlak boxing, and stop acting butthurt, eh?
there is nothing to discredit because poochiao doesn't deserve any credit for this fight.
Who should he have fought, given that Mayweather couldn't reach a negotiation? Vitali? Why cant you give a great fighter credit for dominating a good fighter? Tonight's fight was much more entertaining than Mayweather-Marquez, and about as meaningful as Mayweather-Mosley, maybe a bit more so just because of the unprecedented move up in weight i'd say. Overall a good night of boxing, much to Pacquiao's and Margarito's credit, why you hating?
I agree, but dismissing Dawson so lightly is a big mistake, he's talented and with proper development will be a big player in this sport. Abraham seems more protected and limited with each fight.
I don't like what he said/did to Joe Frazier but I still pay my respect to the Champ
Yeah I agree Ali's mental warfare went a litle far at times, but he did seem to give respect after the fights when it was due, unlike some modern champs. His prefight comments about Patterson always irked me though, never did seem right.
You'd be surprised, there are people who say he is some how 'overated' or 'hyped' because he was an American, and I frequently read how Vitali or Wlad would 'destroy' him if they fought prime on prime, which I don't see happening at all.
I agree that it is important to evaluate whether staying and clearing out a division should be valued over 'cherry picking' titles, but I also think that people need to realize that when say, Harry Greb moved up in wieght, it was a very different circumstance than when a guy like Oscar or Floyd moved up in weight ot fight a title holder.
Punching power comes from the legs and shoulders, so bulking up would do nothing really to improve Diaz's power, and may even be detrimental, as it would likely reduce his speed of movement...
Trinidad doesn't need this at this stage in his career, he is either going to look stupid for carrying this guy the whole fight, or he will look like a ***hole for beating this guy to a pulp. If Trinidad is serious about making a comeback, he has unfinished business with Winky Wright...
Chris John is an above average fighter with a below average resume. Potential means shit in the sport of boxing, its what you do with it that matters, and in that regard John has been an abysmal failure. With the exception of Enoki, John has mostly been sitting on his laurels since the Marquez debacle...
I hope this is true! SMW is a stacked division, and if this goes down I think it could replace WW as THE division in boxing. I've always liked Taylor, but he does seem to have lost some steam, here's hoping we get some awesome fights out of this!
1. "Pro" wrestling is a scripted sport
2. most people who watch wrestling are ignorant fucktards
3. There are already too many ignorant fucktards on this forum
4. Most of the people who watch wrestling probably cant appreciate the sweet science that is boxing
5. Floyd, the "p4p champ" doesnt have the time to fight Cotto or Williams, yet somehow he is able to mess around over at the WWE
6. The kind of publicity this stunt brings would be negative, and therefore is unnecessary