I can understand Brook on this one. Khan has been beaten badly on multiple occasions and he has never fought at 147. Brook at least worked his way up the ranks to get a shot. He may have fought weaker opposition but he did it the right way so far. Only the Mayweathers or P4P best should be able to move up and get title shots without fighting in a division. Khan is more about hype than production at this point but he does bring more money and this is a business. If Khan could become more well rounded he could be very good with the speed he possesses. Nonetheless Brook does need to step up and fight a contender though. I have a feeling he may fight Mosley next and that may not be a good idea. He could lose or he could beat an old faded fighter. Either way it is a neutral step and not a forward one.
They shouldn't, unlike Bute Bradley has proven himself against very good competition.
I am not sure if Bradleys competition is that much better than Bute's. He doesn't fight in one place all the time but Alexander is not proven yet and I think his best win may be Witter. I just hope Bradley doesn't get stage fright and freeze up on the big stage.
i wouldnt say bradley dominated 140... khan cleaned out 140 as well....
as for bute, im a fan, but admit he definitely missed out since he wasnt part of the super six.
I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it. Really all that the division had was Alexander, Bradley and Khan as big time guys. Even though I don't care for Khan's attitude he is a skilled fighter and would give Bradley troubles in a good fight.
Johnson would score a EASY UD over Arreola
Arreola throws too many punches. Johnson would do what he did vs Vitali and lose a wide decision. Even if Arreola don't hit him cleanly his lack of activity would make the judges favor Chris. Johnson doesn't have enough power to hurt him and Chris would just keep throwing.
Man Johnson needs help. That dude stunk up the joint vs Klit and now he talking about how great he is. I am glad Seth stood up to him. Kevin seems like nothing more than a hustler. I am yet to see him fight above average fighter and have a great showing. He talks his way into fights and has lack luster performances when he gets them. I would love to see him fight Arreola so he can get crushed or finally perform. I presume the former.
A Bute-Bradley comparo?? Not even realistic. Bradley was the top fighter at 140. He beat all of them except for Khan, (minus a couple slightly relevant guys). Bute beat absolutely no one to earn the 2nd seed at 168.
But Bradley cannot be deemed overrated if he losses, not when 75% of the world thinks he losses anyway.
Bradley underdog.
Bute favored,(for some strange reason).
I think Bute was favored more on Froch's fight with Ward than on his own merrits. I see it as a no lose situation for Bradley. If he loses he lost to a great fighter and if he wins he beat a great fighter. As long as he shows up I think he will be good.
Hell naw!!! Mayweather didn't even do nothin for once. Where is all the outrage for Abril? That was a worse decision. We ain't boycott after JMM was robbed by Manny. It was a bad decision. It won't make me boycott the big fights. Sorry bro.
Arreola activity would be good for 4-5 Rounds then Johnson would pick him apart the second half of that fight, Johnson is extremely Slick and very quick for his size, he is not just going to stand in front of Arreola and Arreola is not no fukin Vitali, not as skilled as Vitali nor does he have the Stamina or the Jab Vitali has...Johnson don't need the Power to beat Arreola, he would let Arreola defeat himself by getting him tired, by the 6th Round or so Arreola will start to get sloppy and desperate, his Guard comes down and he starts to swing wildly looking for a KO...and that is when Kevin Johnson will pick him apart, while Johnson style gets called "BORING" but most, that guy is actually a difficult match up for anybody that is not named Vitali or Wlad lol
I can't see it. I have seen Johnson fight many times and he can be slick and do all that with the "C" level competition but I have never seen him do that with the A-B level. He is only boring because he chooses to be. He can be a lot better if he fought more and stopped show boating. You are right that Chris is not Vitali but Johnson is not even on Chris level. No way Chris will get tired by a guy with no power and a good jab. I am not a Arreola fan but I must admit he is a decent fighter.
I can agreee to disagree with you on this one. I say lets see it and let them prove who is the best. I would rather see Johnson vs Eddie Chambers. That would be decent I think.
Either Morales has a great chin still or Khan has a bad chin still. Khan has overrated power and bad defense. Even in the sparring promo on sky he was getting hit a whole lot by his sparring partner. If only Danny would of threw a wild hook and KOed his dad. That would of made it a perfect fight.
I am looking at it from a mental aspect. When you don't get what you want or expect you get disappointed sometimes. I am not sure if it did affect them but going from fighting a name guy to a no-name guy can make it a less mentally attractive fight for the fighter. They could over look the guy or just not get up for it.
After watching both fighters over the years I don't see how Alexander wins if he fights the way he has recently. I really like Brook. I think his power is a lil overrated but he does have the speed to match or surpass Devon and he does have a good chin. Devon showed he has mental weakness when things get tough when Bradley was roughing him up and Kell showed a lot of grit and heart when Jones was roughing him up. I honestly haven't seen Alexander look really good since he fought Urango. The Maidana fight was better than his last fight but that is it. He has tools and a decent skill set but I just don't see the fire that it takes to be a next level fighter.
This fight sucks, only the mugs here in the UK will buy it.
Does "mugs" mean beer drinker? Like beer mug? Or does it mean mofo's? Or am I just lost all together?
The fight does suck though. Khan should go after Peterson again.
Am I the only one who thought the cout was BS?
Wth it was just 1 knockdown and he got right back up. Wlads been down way longer than that and they always let him continue. FIC was in.
Yeah your alone bro. I wanted him to be able to go on just to see more boxing but it was a good stoppage. His legs were gone. If he would have rested on the rope for a minute he might have been good but him walking to the ref spelled his doom.
I like Price's class by doing the interview after he got KOed. Mad props. We got a lot of guys who run out of the ring after a decision loss. I think he will be better if he gets a better trainer and more experience.
I am gonna play devils advocate here. The only way I can see the judges giving Bradley the fight is that they based there scoring on the whole round versus who did the most damage. What I mean is that if you watch the whole round you will see that in a lot of them Bradley won 2 mins or so because Manny wasn't doing much. Then Manny would turn it on in the last min to 30 seconds and do more damage. Kind of like how Oscar used to try to do when he got older. Steal rounds. To me even if that is how they viewed it I don't see how Bradley could have won since he got cautious once he tasted Manny's power in the 3rd & 4th rounds. He basically lost rounds 3-8 easily. I did tell my buddy before the decision that I thought Bradley might get 5 rounds if the judges were bad but I thought Manny won going away. Nonetheless it is what it is. It won't be changed so they will have to fight again. Hopefully the Celtics won't be playing and Manny will come out on time. :slap:
Some people in the media are in outrage over this and they suspect Floyd Mayweather paid off the judges because Pacquiao's contract for this fight stipulated, if Pacman loses, a rematch must be fought immediately.
So journalists are in outrage saying Floyd Mayweather paid off the judges to avoid fighting pacman
Come on bro. You can come up with a more intelligent comment than that. This ain't about Floyd for once. The judges ripped off Manny. Maybe even Arum. But Floyd is on his vacation chillin. Lets call it what it is and not let the judges off the hook for a bad score card.
I am sure compubox does the same thing as HBO and calls punches that are blocked. When a fighter throws a lot of punches HBO just assumes that they are landing but those of us with eyes can see they are not. It happened in this fight and almost everyone where there is an agenda for a particular boxer.
The only thing illegal should be your comment and ignorance. I was making a joke, what I don't get is how people actually give a f*ck what someone else does with their life. So he wants to be a woman, so what let him be. You should only be mad if you were planning on f*cking him while he was a man... were you?
So you going on a rampage about someone else's opinion on something is more righteous than the guys opinion? How can you give advice when someone should get mad when you just got mad because someone else had a personal opinion? If someone should be allowed the freedom to do something with their life that is unnatural without judgement from others, then people should be allowed to have an opinion on something that they disagree with without getting judged as well.
It's not that people shouldn't be allowed freedom of opinion, but that certain opinions contribute to a narrower than necessary definition of normativity, which leads to suffering for people like Maloney. People are thankfully allowed to be and to become who they want to be in this country, at least in a legal sense. And your assessment seems to allow for Maloney not to be judged and yet for others to be allowed to judge him. Which doesn't add up.
The defence rests ;)
The defense (which is spelled wrong) along with the word normativity (which doesn't exist) should rest. You just won my case by using the same argument I did:smashfrea.
I thought JT was in great shape and looked fast and powerful. As a matter of fact I had him up 4-2 or maybe 3-3 if I wanted to stretch it. I was more impressed with him in this fight than in any other so far. I knew he aint have no chin so for him to last 7 rounds while being hit was a good showing IMOP. I dont see how someone who has been in 4-5 big fights can come in so nervous against a challenger like KP who aint never been in a big fight. He did waste a lot of energy by his nervousness but his lack of knowledge of what to do when he was hurt, cost him this fight. KP knew to hold when he was hurt. JT never attempted once to hold Kelly when he was hurt and that was his big down fall.
Or He Will Go Down As The Biggest Coward In Boxing !!!!he Has Not Fought A Primed Ww Yet And If He Wants To Be Taken Serious He Needs To Man Up. I Laugh When People Say Who Has Cotto Beat Who Has Tony Beat.............who The Fuck Has Mayweather Beat At Ww .............who.....yea Exactly My Fucking Point!
I dont think he will go down as a coward at all. Lennox Lewis didn't go down as a coward when he retired without giving Vitali a rematch I dont think. And everyone was calling for that fight at the time. I do think fighting one of those guys will solidify him as an ATG though. And if you wanna say who has he fought in their prime at welter that was any good then you gotta say the same for Cotto. He aint beat anyone at welter in their prime that was great either. Hell you may as well say the best fighters any of them fought that was in their prime at the time were Clottey, Cintron and Williams and AM fought all them. I agree that Floyd does need to fight a real welter that is in their prime and I hope it is the winner of AM vs MC.
If that is your problem with Hopkins then you should go watch his older fights when he could still throw more than 30 punches a round. Age got to him but he knew how to deal with it by pacing himself.
It's not really an option to stand & trade with someone like Calzaghe or even Taylor at age 43. I do think he could've beaten Taylor but against Calzaghe he was too far gone.
I wouldn't bring up Sugar Ray Leonard as a great middleweight either. His best work was done in the lower weight divisions aside from the split decision win over Hagler.
Your right about Sugar Ray too. I was using him as an all time great vs a all time MW. I mis spoke on that one.
I hate to use this excuse but its just the truth. The reason he didn't Echols Calzaghe or Taylor is because he was old, he was 40 and 43 when he faught them. Hopkins doesn't have the stamina anymore to have that kind of workrate. But Calzaghe and Taylor still deserve credit for their wins. He was 35 when he faught Echols.
I'll buy the old excuse for everything but the 1st Taylor fight. If he was that old he wouldn't have come on the way he did in the 8th and almost KO JT. I think he used the wrong strategy in that one. Dont get me wrong I think he is a great fighter and he has got some stellar accomplishments but I am just not on the ATG side just yet.
Hopkins is way more of an all time great then Calzaghe. He couldn't even really beat a shot version of Hopkins. He would have got his ass handed to him if Hopkins was in his hey day! That was obvious to everybody though!
I'm definitely not sold on Calzaghe being an ATG but you do have to admit he beat more fighters in his weight class that were in their prime and "real" threats to beat him than Hopkins did. I thought he easily won the fight because B-hop just wouldnt punch and kept running. But I agree whole heartedly that Hopkins in his hey day beats and probably KO's Calzaghe.
If that is your problem with Hopkins then you should go watch his older fights when he could still throw more than 30 punches a round.
I wouldn't bring up Sugar Ray Leonard as a great middleweight either. His best work was done in the lower weight divisions aside from the split decision win over Hagler.
I have seen his older fights and what not. The Echols fights were pretty good. I'm just saying he didn't fight like that against the quaility fighters that he faced. If he fought Taylor or Calzaghe the way he fought Echols or RJJ I believe he would have beat both. I'm just on the fence a little with him being an ATG.
Hopkins is arguably not as good as some of the ATGs you mention, but I think it is arguably. He absolutely would have been a credible opponent for any of them, and I'm quite sure able to beat them on his day too. I'm not saying he's better neccessarily, just that he's comfortably good enough to have mixed it with these guys.
My opinion is that the Haglers, Leonards etc of this world were probably not as good as we now imagine them to be. Were they some of the greatest boxers of all time? Of course they were, but were they the unbeatable, superhuman monsters of the popular imagination? No, of course they aren't.
When we assess boxing we are far too ready to dole out legend status here, ATG there, and as time passes this is all we remember of a fighter, we place them on a plateau so high that we imagine nothing can touch them. We forget that at the end of the day they are just men fighting in a ring, and forget that that ring has no respect for status, legendary or not. In the ring you see only men.
We saw this in the recent Calzaghe Hopkins fight, with fans on both sides predicting easy wins for their 'great' fighter. In reality we saw a close contest between two evenly matched fighters. Once the hype dies down, this is what we nearly always see when two good fighters step into the ring, and we would do well to remember it.
Hopkins record alone justifies his status as a great, no-one else reigned so long or defended so many times at MW. He has boxed at elite level well into his 40s without looking shot and that is something even the greats you mentioned were not able to do.
Ultimately, comparisons with the past are not the measure we should judge a fighter by, we should judge them on their own terms, on what they do during their careers. By that measure Hopkins is easily an ATG, as are Calzaghe and Jones JR for that matter. I feel lucky to have seen these fighters fight and look forward to the day they are discussed in exactly the way Hagler, Hearns, leonard et al are now.
You make some very good points. I do give Hopkins mad props for fighting as well as he has being that he is over 40. I guess when I look at the other ATG's I look at guys who took risks and were willing to take punishment to give it and what not. I dont see B-hop as one of those guys. No one is unbeatable surely but if you leave it all in the ring every time you fight then that is all one can ask of you and you of yourself. I think if he just punches more and sits down on his punches against Taylor, Calzaghe and even tarver, that he would have got the KO. If that were the case I would easily rate him up their with the rest. Maybe as time goes by and I watch past fights of his my opinion will sway more to putting him in that catergory. Who knows?