100% Boxing did not cause Ali's Parkinson's

We might like to tell ourselves that because it's negates delving into the uncomfortable moral implications of what it is we're financing here. But, it really is quite simple. If you expose an organ to repeated trauma it gets damaged. One Swedish study concluded that up to 80% of boxers studied showed signs of brain damage and that included both professional and amateur. Moreover non of the boxers studied had every lost by a knockout: - "Our study shows that after bouts, some of the boxers had elevated concentrations of four different proteins in the brain fluid, which all signal damage to the brain's nerve cells. Moreover, two of the proteins were still elevated after a period of rest" Concerning Ali specifically he was originally diagnosed in 1984 under Dr Stanley Fahn, a professor of neurology at Columbia University. He found that Ali didn't have Parkinson's disease but rather Parkinson's syndrome. As he explained, "With Parkinson's disease, the cells in the brain stem that produce dopamine progressively degenerate and die and produce less dopamine. In Muhammad's case there's damage to those cells from physical trauma." Neither Fahn nor Dr Dennis Cope, a professor of medicine at UCLA who treated Ali regularly over the years detected any signs of dementia pugilistica (punch drunkenness) but both agreed as Dr Cope stated, "If Ali wouldn't have been a professional fighter, none of these problems would have occurred." Its beyond question that Ali's condition was caused by the trauma of taking repeated blows to the head in both bouts and sparring. Edit: The above quotes from Dr's Fahn and Cope where taken from a resent Hugh Mcilvanny article in The Times. Looks like he's used outdated quotes. Here's a snippet from a more recent piece in the Neurology Now journal: 'After a weeklong evaluation period in which Ali and his entourage turned a wing of the hospital into their own private hotel suite, Dr. Fahn diagnosed parkinsonism. What's more, Dr. Fahn suspected that the head trauma inflicted on Ali throughout his boxing career could be the cause.“There was some evidence that he had taken some hits to the head and so forth,” recalls Dr. Fahn, director of the Center for Parkinson's Disease and Other Movement Disorders at Columbia University. “So there was concern on my part that he might have what we call post-traumatic Parkinson's, or ‘pugilistic parkinsonism,’ from damage to the brain and the brain stem.” In goes on to state however: 'An early Ali complaint of numbness in his lips and face, rendering him unaware of when food needed to be wiped away, indicated damage to the brain stem due to boxing, according to Dr. Fahn. But the steady progression of the disorder over the years, he adds, is more indicative of classic Parkinson's disease. “The proof is only going to come at his autopsy,” Dr. Fahn says, “because the pathology is a little bit different between the two conditions.” So my original assertion was wide of the mark. I stand corrected.

I remember reading an article in the 90's in which they attributed it to chemicals like pesticides.

There's two different conditions. Parkinson's disease which can effect anyone and pugilistic Parkinsonism. The later can have similar symptoms but it cause by damage to the brain from trauma. This condition won't respond to drugs that treat typical Parkinsons. In Ali's case he did respond to drugs so it's likely he had traditional Parkinsons. However there are links between concussions and dementia and other brain conditions. So its possible that's boxing contributed to his Parkinsons but it wasn't the sole cause. Hard to say for sure though.

I don't know what it was, therefore IT MUST BE... (not a good position to argue from) Ali took a hell of a lot of punishment vs Frazier, Holmes, Norton etc.. Even in the Foreman fight he took some clean shots that would've knocked most other HW's out.. He's either being sarcastic or is completely ignorant. Ali took insane amounts of punishment. It's impossible to watch his bigger fights without noticing that. You'd have to base your opinion on some of his better GIF's instead of watching his actual fights to come up with him never getting hit too much.

i agree. parkinsons is a very unknown disease. ali had very good defense and movement for a heavyweight. even later in his career he never really got hit too much. sometime things happen for a reason that only God himself knows. Ali took a hell of a lot of punishment vs Frazier, Holmes, Norton etc.. Even in the Foreman fight he took some clean shots that would've knocked most other HW's out..

I did a project on Parkinsons disease awhile back for school cuz my idol is Muhammad Ali. Brain truama does increase the chance of getting Parkinosns disease but Ali would of had to of had Parkinsons first. A LOT of boxers receive brain truama that will result in lasting effects, but non of them were diagnose with Parkinsons disease specifically other than Ali and Roach. That is why Roach stated that he felt connected to Ali cuz they shared the disease. Yes there is other brain disorders or syndromes the other boxers may of had in result on boxing that has some similarity to parkinsons, but specifically Parkinsons disease, only Ali, Roach, and maybe a some unknowns. The myth that boxing CAUSED Parkinsons disease is not valid, it obviously made it worse nut then many other boxers would of also been LEGALLY DIAGNOSED with parkinsons disease. Even Alis doctors stated the same thing. This thread is only to specify this.

Wildly ignorant statement. There are so many people with it that they have a name for the condition, "Pugilistic Parkinsons". You think they made that up for the 2 boxers you are aware of? Do some reading. I'm not referencing Ali at all, but commenting on the foolishness of the above. "Medical professionals have called for such a ban since as early as the 1950s. Symptoms and signs of DP develop progressively over a long latent period sometimes amounting to decades, with the average time of onset being about 12 to 16 years after the start of a career in boxing. The condition is thought to affect around 15% to 20% of professional boxers." Thats not parkinsons disease tho lol just cuz they have similar symptons does not make them the same disease..... like i said roach,ali, michael j fox have the parkinsons disease. Obviously boxing causes a lot of health problems and brain problems, but it does not cause parkinsons disease, probably only amplifies it.

i agree. parkinsons is a very unknown disease. ali had very good defense and movement for a heavyweight. even later in his career he never really got hit too much. sometime things happen for a reason that only God himself knows. Ali got hit a ton. I disagree with this completely. Shavers took his head off. Norton tagged him, Holmes fight, Spinks. Not even mentioning the obvious Frazier fights. The causes of Parkinson's are still not fully understood. But they're a combination of genetic and environmental causes. Ali had some kind of genetic predisposition to Parkinson's. Ultimately, all of us do -- if we live long enough into old age. Getting hammered in the brain DEFINITELY increases your chances of bringing on the disease, and bringing it earlier. I agree with this. Ali probably had Parkinsons and brain trauma. Ultimately I don't know enough about Parkinson's disease. I just know that brain trauma and Parkinson's don't necessarily go hand in hand as far as I can tell. Edit: Google tells me both sides to the story though I see more articles saying head trauma does increase the risk.

BoxingSceneMD.com

I think they are different conditions. What boxers typically get, Pugilistic Parkinsons as you call it, is different from Parkinsons that Michael J Fox and Ali have. Not saying boxing didn't make matters worse for Ali I'm sure it did, but I believe these are two separate things and even Ali's doctors have said they don't believe boxing caused his Parkinson's. " I Don’t Think Boxing Contributed To Ali Contracting Parkinson’s Disease" http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/06/06/doctor-muhammad-ali-parkinsons/ Yes, they are different, which is why I told him I wasn't referring to Ali, but his statements about Parkinson's and boxing.

All these online PHD's. I had no idea I was a member of a forum with such prestige intelligence.

How many fighters do you know that have parkinsons? Ali and Roach. Out of the millions who have boxed, people only know of 2. Wildly ignorant statement. There are so many people with it that they have a name for the condition, "Pugilistic Parkinsons". You think they made that up for the 2 boxers you are aware of? Do some reading. I'm not referencing Ali at all, but commenting on the foolishness of the above. "Medical professionals have called for such a ban since as early as the 1950s. Symptoms and signs of DP develop progressively over a long latent period sometimes amounting to decades, with the average time of onset being about 12 to 16 years after the start of a career in boxing. The condition is thought to affect around 15% to 20% of professional boxers."

Not a cause but a major risk factor. Yes it is idiopathic but heavy head trauma over 20 years doesn't do your brain any favours.

The causes of Parkinson's are still not fully understood. But they're a combination of genetic and environmental causes. Ali had some kind of genetic predisposition to Parkinson's. Ultimately, all of us do -- if we live long enough into old age. Getting hammered in the brain DEFINITELY increases your chances of bringing on the disease, and bringing it earlier.

Yall have no idea what i was saying. I said boxing doesnt lead to Parkinson disease. I didnt say it doesnt damage you. Ofcourse it damages you, slurring your speech and causes brain damage. But Ali would of got Parkinsons regardless. Boxing just made it worse for him in the long run. But saying boxing causes parkinsons disease is factually wrong. It just made it worse. What ali had was not what micheal j fox has, it's not Parkinson's as you would call what fox has, but the symptoms are similar. I know what you're saying, but others already explained the other names alis condition was called. No he would not of developed his parkinsons syndrome without the repeated blows to the head

Yall have no idea what i was saying. I said boxing doesnt lead to Parkinson disease. I didnt say it doesnt damage you. Ofcourse it damages you, slurring your speech and causes brain damage. But Ali would of got Parkinsons regardless. Boxing just made it worse for him in the long run. But saying boxing causes parkinsons disease is factually wrong. It just made it worse.

Thanks rockin, nice to see you again. Haven't been here in ages, miss the mid 00s when I was here all the time in the e-arguements and acting a fool...this ali news brought me back and reading this stuff on parkinsons, it'll never be known how some get it and others like chuvalo or tyson don't, I think it's just the luck of your genes and other factors.

The guy ali fought against in his comeback, Jerry quarry who was an excellent fighter also had brain issues after boxing, hell, the guy didn't make it out of his 50s ffs. They call it pugilistic demintia, parkinsons syndrome or whatever, sugar ray Robinson, joe louis all had it. Besides the tough fights ali had he was always taking a beating in sparring matches. Idk where you're getting at tc, if he never boxed it's 100% sure he wouldn't of ended up in that state he was in, what you gonna claim next? That boxers don't die in the ring or that a punch can't kill you?

They can call it what they want. For thousands have sat in Alis state, except then it's called Dementia Pugilistica.:boxing: ^^^^^ This It's retarded to assume that a person who's profession was getting punched in the face and who daily took heavy amounts of brain trauma and then started to suffer a neurological disease that is wasn't related to his job. Was it the sole cause I don't know did it contribute most f.ucking likely Unless your a DR or some other specialist in that field that you haven't disclosed your opinion on the matter is really worthless

Only two boxers? What are you talking about? There are so many fighters, that are all forgotten about becsuse they're not on TV constantly, that have what Roach and Ali have. In some cases it might be called Parkinson's, but in most it's called what it is, Pugilistica Dementia. Go check out the Denny bros for instance. So sad man. There are tons of cases like that everywhere. Just because you havent heard of them doesn't mean they arent out there.