How long before Showtime surpasses HBO?

Showtime has passed as far as I'm concerned; True Blood is the first show I've watched on HBO since the Wire went off the air. Homeland is the best show on TV other than Scandal which is a regular network show.

Wait, since HBO and Showtime pretty much swapped all of their executives/personnel, etc... within the past year or so.... Does that mean that what you're saying is the Opposite? If you like hype, whit and pizzaz, then showtime is better and if you like quality HBO is better? not sure if serious? Yep. Showtime is the hype channel now. But they're horrible at it so I don't expect it to matter much. HBO still have the viewers and will continue to do so. Showtime is bush league.

Hbo doesn't even want to promote rigfondeaux and doesn't think he would sell, yet he pulls in great numbers. Hbo has been dropping the ball

Hbo dominated the first half of 2013 showtime dominated the summer and hbo has the rest of year.

I have both so i dont care

I hope it's soon. I don't care about network beefs but I do believe Showtime has the better stable to begin with so it'd be better for them to take over completely. I just wish guys like Bradley, Marquez, Pac, Rios, GGG, Alvarado, and Provodnikov moved over to SHO. Then HBO would be irrelevant and I could cancel and there would only be one major network showcasing the meaningful events.

Can someone explain why Pac and TR only had a one-fight deal with Showtime (his fight against Mosley)? I thought Arum was moving to Showtime permanently and HBO was really saddened to have lost Manny.

Yeah, and most Mexicans and Americans don't want to tune to watch guys named Klitschko, Kovalev, Golovkin, Provodnikox, Shiming, Froch... fight. Facts are facts. HBO working with the wrong formula. They'll learn soon enough. In the next year, they'll fire their head guy, and the new guy will welcome Golden Boy back. Business is business. Wow, how ignorant can you be? Facts are facts? What was Golovkin's numbers versus Macklin? Well then it seems HBO is catering to hardcore fans only then. Because true boxing fans, ya know, don't care about where a boxer comes from, his color or ethnicity..... And seeing as how their numbers since this new "formula" you speak of have been the same old HBO numbers, I'm guessing they will be fine. Even if Golovkin and company drew 100+ million American viewers, it still wouldn't be the reason he is a good fighter/talent. Maybe you should just youtube some street brawls. That seems to be up your alley a bit more then boxing. Or prison fights, since you seem so keen on only supporting and watching boxers who look like you. :lame: FYI the term "Americans" consist of people who are from those exact countries those boxers you just mentioned are from... My god...

HBO needs to fire Ken. HBO needs to do business with GBP again because Showtime is kicking HBO a** right now. TR is no longer the number one boxing power house any more that belongs to GBP. Which holds the two biggest boxing dates of the year which is Cinco De Mayo weekend and the Independence Day weekend of Mexico. It seems like HBO is settling for Bob Arum b.s again like the did in the year 2010 and 2011. When he had boxing in a headlock. When HBO was buying b.s fights from him. As a boxing fan the number one boxing network is Showtime. They are giving us the fights that we want to see and the PPV cards are a lot better. I like how Al, and Paulie call the fights. Where in HBO Jim Lamps has his favorite fighters or tries to make some of these ordinary fighters look a lot better then they really are like a Bika. Ward talking good about Chavez Jr trying to get a PPV fight with him. Showtime has surpass HBO they have the number one fighter on their network in Money May enough said. I pay for both networks but I feel like I'am getting my money worth with Showtime even my on demand is better on Showtime Sports. Where on HBO I have to record the fights live on HD or I wont be able to dubbed them later.

........apples & oranges...........to spend 75+ for Mayweathers bouts will now fade because the fight never developed into a FIGHT! It was a rip off but young fans today think that counter moves and counter punching (One at a time Punches) is actually the "science" of boxing!!! When you see a fighter throw one punch at a time and actually move away after he throws it without any shots coming back at him your watching BS!!!! Great fighters that boxed to set up their power are a rare sight!!!!! Ray

The people who only have one of the networks? Really? Why?! I called and cancelled my HBO subscription and swapped it for Showtime and I don't regret it. Are you saying people don't know they can simply just call and swap network subscriptions? Or are they just too lazy to do it?:thinking:

Isn't Showtime all GBP right now? HBO doesn't only have TR. They're getting fights from the Klitschkos and GGG.

I think Showtime has already passed HBO based on the matchups they have shown this year and the potential matchups for 2014. I don't think HBO is going to have too much to offer beyond the few events they have left for this year. Bradley/Marquez is a good fight, but not for PPV. Pac/Rios could be a decent fight, but again not for PPV. Arnoutis/Provodnikov is a decent fight and so is GGG/Stevens. Donaire/Darchinyan is about three years too late and the upcoming Cotto fight is a mismatch. Mikey Garcia vs whoever he is fighting is not a fight that peaks too many people's interest. If you look at the potential matchups for HBO for next year that can be offered by Top Rank or one of the promoters other than GBP, the only ones that really would be considered big or peak fan interest are: Cotto/Martinez or GGG/Martinez. Adonis Stevenson vs Kovalev would be a decent fight, but not something I am salivating over. I don't care if I ever see JCC Jr. in the ring again, even if it is against Ward. The other potential matchups would be retreads featuring Pac, Marquez, Bradley, Rios, Provodnikov and Donaire that are not going to draw much support. So HBO has very few options without GBP while Showtime has a significant number of them, especially since Cotto is a free agent and Martinez will be a free agent after one more HBO fight. Its hard to imagine HBO being able to put together a PPV that can crack 1 million buys right now. Thats a really telling sign of how far they've fallen just in this year

who gives a damn??? who really cares what channel a damn fight comes on? Pactards do, Larry. Don't you remember the countless, ignorant threads they made? The truth is, Showtime has a lot of work thanks to Golden Boy and I'm sure everyone agrees that Golden Boy has all the boxers worth mentioning in their roster. Even the scheduled fights on HBO are cringe worthy. Who in the hell wants to see a Donaire vs Darchy rematch? They got no possible mega fights in store...they are done! Only a matter of time before HBO apologizes to GBP and crawls back.

who gives a damn??? who really cares what channel a damn fight comes on? The people who only have one of the networks?

I think Showtime has already passed HBO based on the matchups they have shown this year and the potential matchups for 2014. I don't think HBO is going to have too much to offer beyond the few events they have left for this year. Bradley/Marquez is a good fight, but not for PPV. Pac/Rios could be a decent fight, but again not for PPV. Arnoutis/Provodnikov is a decent fight and so is GGG/Stevens. Donaire/Darchinyan is about three years too late and the upcoming Cotto fight is a mismatch. Mikey Garcia vs whoever he is fighting is not a fight that peaks too many people's interest. If you look at the potential matchups for HBO for next year that can be offered by Top Rank or one of the promoters other than GBP, the only ones that really would be considered big or peak fan interest are: Cotto/Martinez or GGG/Martinez. Adonis Stevenson vs Kovalev would be a decent fight, but not something I am salivating over. I don't care if I ever see JCC Jr. in the ring again, even if it is against Ward. The other potential matchups would be retreads featuring Pac, Marquez, Bradley, Rios, Provodnikov and Donaire that are not going to draw much support. So HBO has very few options without GBP while Showtime has a significant number of them, especially since Cotto is a free agent and Martinez will be a free agent after one more HBO fight.

Yeah, and most Mexicans and Americans don't want to tune to watch guys named Klitschko, Kovalev, Golovkin, Provodnikox, Shiming, Froch... fight. Facts are facts. HBO working with the wrong formula. They'll learn soon enough. In the next year, they'll fire their head guy, and the new guy will welcome Golden Boy back. Business is business. Great point. HBO is an American cable company after all.

True they have a stranglehold on the JWW, WW and pretty much the JMW division. They're thin pretty much north of there and have some decent fighters south of there. Those are the "American" divisions though, that's where almost all the 'name' US talent is concentrated, most of the big-name Mexicans too.

Showtime's boxing programming was FAR SUPERIOR to HBO's before Hershman made the move. The Super Six? The Bantamweight Tournament? Meanwhile HBO was doing showcase fights for Andre Berto and Chavez Jr. C'mon man. Showtime was the savior of boxing programming in America. ****s done with now, though. In terms of numbers, Showtime can not and will not do better numbers than HBO, simply because HBO has so many more subscribers than Showtimes. Boxing is just part of the package; HBO has far superior original programming and their sports documentaries are second to none. We're talking apples and oranges here, really. Showtime can allocate all the resources to Boxing they want, but they aren't going to come near HBO. This is true no doubt. The big edge in original programming helps them have a competitive advantage. But if you have second tier boxing programming then that is putting the wrong message out there. If your the best you should be the best across the board. HBO really needs to step up its boxing game right now with solid cards top to bottom. Showtime's been doing it and they need to keep up.

Fair enough but whats the point of the thread? things like saying the jw's or ww's of GBP or anybody promoted by golden boy are better then any of their top rank/hbo counterparts just because they're promoted by GBP is but a mere opinion. you also start your OP by saying showtime has been putting up great matchups. HBO has also been putting up just as many great matchups this year. Showtime does have great depth in those divisions. (HBO has great depth in MW/LHW, etc) Alvardo, Rios and Provodnikov being a tier under elite is your opinion. They have losses just like Soto-Karass, Berto, Robert Guererro, Lopez and ortiz have losses. Saying the latter is better is just your opinion. It seems you think fighters are better on showtime just because that's your favorite network/promoter etc. which is fine. But that doesn't mean anything in your post is true. Saying "those stars" - GGG, Bradley, JMM Pac will only take you so far when compared to Floyd, broner and canelo is again just your opinion. Not even sure what that means tbh. i guess your point is you think the guys on showtime are going to draw better ratings and make more money ( again just an opinion) but even if they do...... Canelo can sell 5 million tickets to his next fight. so can danny garcia. But that doesn't mean either of them are better then GGG or JMM, etc. ratings/draw means nothing in terms of absolute boxing skill/talent. If it did, JCC JR would be a P4P fighter. Not sure why a boxing fan would even care about this business side of things. HBO's depth at MW outside of Golovkin is largely on a fight by fight basis due to the talent mostly being tied to overseas promoters. The guys you compared Provo, Alvarado, & Rios to are also some of the guys on the second tier of GBP's talent roster but there are guys like Thurman, Alexander, & Lara who are better. I'll throw Top Rank a bone cuz they do have a legit guy in Crawford as well coming up. I believe GGG is the best middleweight in the world and in due time he will prove that. I also believe Andre Ward is the best SMW. Some of my favorite fighters are on HBO but it doesn't mean these guys are huge draws. Drawing power at the end of the day is what gets ratings which is what generates the most money. You even alluded to this yourself. So at the end of the day if GBP is putting together the fights that generate the most money & buzz then I am asking how long it takes before they surpass HBO? Bradley-JMM great fight, no undercard. Pacman-Rios decent fight, not sure about the undercard. Mayweather-Canelo had 2 solid undercard fights. Obviously as a boxing fan I want the promoter/network that is putting the most competitive cards & best quality product to become number 1. The network that entertains me most is who I want to be on top. I don't get how you just want me to "take what they give me" so to speak and not care about the business side of things when they clearly impact what is being shown on my television.