Who was the best: Ali or Louis?

Muhammad Ali did better with fighters with Joe Louis's style than Joe Louis did with fighters of Ali's style. What I mean is Ali could outbox those hard hitters (Cleveland Williams, Sonny Liston, Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle) easier it seemed than Joe Louis fought boxers (Schmeling, Billy Conn). I pick Ali.

LOL, you claiming Frazier beat Ali in their second fight is as ridiculous as if I were to claim Ali won the first fight. Ali is all hype and overrated? He beat every single top contender and titlist of his era, every single one, which is something noone else in any weight class, ever can lay claim to. His resume is easily better than any top HW of all time, including Louis. Louis lost to lesser fighters and was hurt by lesser fighters than Ali. And what the hell do you mean he never lost in his prime? He was surely in his prime when he lost to Schmeling by FIRST ROUND KO, or did you forget that one? Or are you gonna say his prime started after that? Either way, Ali was banned from boxing for 3 and a half years, came back rusty, and managed, with deteriorating physical ability, to continue to clean out the HW division and beat all comers. Ali outranks Louis based on superior opposition beat and head to head ability. He was never KO'd in one round like Louis was either, and never truly KO'd period. You could say the same for Louis, because in his prime he didn't duck anyone (atleast anyone I've ever heard of) but the boxers he beat were not as good the boxers Ali beat. I would say both lost when they were world class but avenged those losses in rematches. They never lost at their absolute best but Louis was undefeated (a little green) when he lost to Schmeling (it wasn't a first round KO btw) and Ali was undefeated (a little rusty) when he lost to Frazier. Remember Louis was also out of boxing for some years because of the world war so he lost some years too. When he returned he was never the same but didn't lose until 1950 to Ezzard Charles. Just straightening some facts but I agree it's stupid to say Ali was just hype.

Joe Louis was the greater fighter, Ali was 75% hype and is the most overrated boxer in history. Joe Louis never lost in his prime (ages 24 to 35). Ali lost five times during that age span: age 29 to Frazier, age 31 to Norton. He was defeated three more times (including another loss to both Norton and Frazier) before his 36th birthday, but given gift decisions. (Ali's three late losses and Lewis two should not be considered, because they were past it when those fights happened)LOL, you claiming Frazier beat Ali in their second fight is as ridiculous as if I were to claim Ali won the first fight. Ali is all hype and overrated? He beat every single top contender and titlist of his era, every single one, which is something noone else in any weight class, ever can lay claim to. His resume is easily better than any top HW of all time, including Louis. Louis lost to lesser fighters and was hurt by lesser fighters than Ali. And what the hell do you mean he never lost in his prime? He was surely in his prime when he lost to Schmeling by FIRST ROUND KO, or did you forget that one? Or are you gonna say his prime started after that? Either way, Ali was banned from boxing for 3 and a half years, came back rusty, and managed, with deteriorating physical ability, to continue to clean out the HW division and beat all comers. Ali outranks Louis based on superior opposition beat and head to head ability. He was never KO'd in one round like Louis was either, and never truly KO'd period.

muhammad ali

Ali imo ...

espn's heavyweight ranking is rediculous. marciano and holmes made it in the top 10 over liston and patterson. that is crazy. what were they smoking when they made that list?

I think Ali is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Louis is number 2. Ali was the better all around fighter IMO. And when Dundee alerted the referee that Ali had a torn glove, they never went all the way back to the dressing room. The glove never came off.

They did not go back to the dressing room, that is the biggest pile of bullshit ever. Many cases state it as around 12 extra seconds, while the very longest is stated as around 40 more seconds. Dressing room my ass. Ali also got up in 4 seconds, and went back to his corner on non-wobbly legs. Watch the footage. The footage I have seen doesn't look like it has any cuts in it at all, and Ali has maybe a few more seconds than usual. The whole story on Ali/Cooper is so immensely exagerrated it is laughable. He stopped Cooper the very next round anyway. From Ali's autobiography: "Desperate to buy his man some time, Dundee alerted the referee to a split on Clay's glove, from which horsehair was protruding. The futile search for a replacement gained Clay an extra minute on his stool. With his powers of recovery, it was all Clay needed" http://www.boxing-memorabilia.com/biocooper1.htm Closer to 6 seconds, he was knocked down at 3:03 on that vid, gets up at 3:09. The bell rings at 3:05 and doesn't ring again till 4:13, plus we have no idea if it was spliced or not.

Ali also got up in 4 seconds, and went back to his corner on non-wobbly legs. Watch the footage. The footage I have seen doesn't look like it has any cuts in it at all, and Ali has maybe a few more seconds than usual. The whole story on Ali/Cooper is so immensely exagerrated it is laughable. He stopped Cooper the very next round anyway. I watched this footage and you're right. Here's my question about all that. In the corner after the round, Ali was obviously dazed. Now back then were smelling salts illegal or legal to use in between rounds? I know they are now. I don't know if they were back then because Dundee is doing something in the corner. All the same Ali beat him again. I just always wondered that part of it. JReckoningI believe that is the only shady thing about it, as it looked like Ali was given smelling salts. I believe they were not allowed then either, not sure though.

The transcendence of one fight (Louis-Schmelling II) vs the the transcendece of one career (Muhammad Ali). If you went up to a random person and asked them about Ali, they'd know what you were talking about, guarunteed. But you walk up and ask them about Louis-Schmelling, and there's about a 70% chance you'll get a blank stare. Well both Schmeling fights were of import, with the second one being more significant. But Louis was a dominant champion and was historically important for other reasons than the War for both the sport and civil rights in general. He was a major player in encouraging the acceptance of black athletes in mainstream sports.

Ali without a doubt. He has everything.

The famous old "torn glove" incident. Ali really had his bell rung by Cooper in that first fight. Had it been early in the round, he would have been knocked out. Dundee gave him some extra time to recuperate, along with some smelling salts, by tearing the glove wide open so that they would have to go back to the dressing room to get a replacement glove. They did not go back to the dressing room, that is the biggest pile of bullshit ever. Many cases state it as around 12 extra seconds, while the very longest is stated as around 40 more seconds. Dressing room my ass. Ali also got up in 4 seconds, and went back to his corner on non-wobbly legs. Watch the footage. The footage I have seen doesn't look like it has any cuts in it at all, and Ali has maybe a few more seconds than usual. The whole story on Ali/Cooper is so immensely exagerrated it is laughable. He stopped Cooper the very next round anyway.

WHen ever talking about the greatest of all time there's always debate because it's different strokes for different folks. Unless everybody decides how they're going to rank "best", then they'll always be debatable. My 3 choices are Ali, Foreman, and Louis. All 3 can be ranked differently depending upon how I'm basing my list.

anybody who thinks Joe Louis was a better fighter than Ali needs their head testing Ali more durable ,quicker ,better footwork, he is just an allround better fighter period Ali wasn't good at finishing or pressuring people as Louis was and he also made mistakes (he could get away with them) while Louis made none (because he couldn't afford to). But I can't see Louis beating Ali, not with his style.

anybody who thinks Joe Louis was a better fighter than Ali needs their head testing Ali more durable ,quicker ,better footwork, he is just an allround better fighter period

Watched the Doug Jones fight (as I'm sure you did). People put too much into the fact that he was doing way better than they expected. He didn't win that fight. The Cooper fight showed Ali's recuperative skills. He was up at 3. He didn't get KO'd like Louis did against Schmelling in the same sort of situation. There's alot to consider, Ali lost 3 years because of his license being suspended....Alot of people will rank Louis number 1 based on the 25 defenses and his win over Schmeling, he always did great in rematches...lets not forget Ali lost to Frazier and Norton, plus alot of people think norton was robbed out of the 3rd bout. I still have Ali #1

Again, it's not based on what you think of Louis against modern days HW's in a head to head matchup. I think Riddick Bowe or Wlad would beat Marciano, but there is no way they accomplished nearly as much in their careers, therefore are not greater fighters. It's about what you do in your time, which is all you can do. no i know what your saying but what im saying is that if take Ali & Louis & u compare there chances of beating some of the modern greats then for me Ali has a great chance at being the more successfull when it comes to head to heads against Modern greats so in my estimation a fighter who could have been competitive in any era like Ali is greater than a fighter whom i believe couldnt have hung with cetain modern greats in the same era , it is just a yard stick of the difference in quality between Ali & Louis & for me Ali wins everytime

Ali was Dropped by Henry Cooper, and alot of people thought he lost to Doug Jones. The famous old "torn glove" incident. Ali really had his bell rung by Cooper in that first fight. Had it been early in the round, he would have been knocked out. Dundee gave him some extra time to recuperate, along with some smelling salts, by tearing the glove wide open so that they would have to go back to the dressing room to get a replacement glove.

Louis' boxing skills are unquestionable and as far as achievements go he has to be rated up there. He does have a suspect chin and he comes from an era where heavyweights were smaller though he totally DESTROYED the 6'6 260 pound Carnera (who wasn't very good I admit). Head-to-head he might not beat every top HW but he wouldn't be outclassed by anyone either. Perhaps beaten by their physical advantages like power and speed which Louis had trouble with.