He coasted the last 4-5 rounds against Tito Trinidad and gave away a sure fire legacy cementing victory.
Do you think Ray Leonard wouldnt have found away to somehow steel a round late to pull out the victory even if his legs were dead tired as Oscar's were...I think Ray would have found a way.
I cant blame Oscar for his effort against Sugar Shane in the first fight-all time greats lose, yes they do just ask Ali and Ray Robinson, Oscar put forth a helluva an effort he just ran into the best version of Shane Mosely anyone had ever seen...but being critical he did throw away a very nice sized first half lead letting Mosely clean up the championship rounds...does anyone think that Ray Leonard would have been washed out like this down the stretch? I dont.
The Sturm fight does not bother me like it does some-he was clearly looking past Felix and obviously in the worst shape of his career-I think he lost but either way I dont hold this against him at all-maybe Im in the minority but it was clear that an in shape Oscar would have had little trouble with Sturm.
Then there was the showdown with Hopkins...sure Oscar was fighting well for 6-7 rounds or should I say fighting competively but Oscar never really flurried to grab a round, he never really gave it that extra effort during any portion of that fight that made you think he wants to win at all costs. Hopkins was certainly the bigger man in that ring but was he really better then Oscar?
Ray Leonard would have found a way to shoe shine Bernard on a couple of occassions and made it far more interesting...yes he got caught in the side and ultimately stopped but it appeared that Oscar had really kind of given up winning that fight a round before that punch landed even though he very competitive...again I cant see a Ray Leonard not finding a way even if he was outsized and outmatch to make it close all the way to the end and maybe even pull it out-after all it did not appear Bernard was the better fighter, just the bigger fighter.
Rewind back to last Saturday, the fight is basically an even fight thru 6, Oscar appears to have the edge when he lets that veteran jab of his fly-the jab is clearly the only punch in Oscar's tool bag that he can hit his lightning fast opponent with and what happens? Oscar puts the jab in his pocket leaving most fight fans wondering what the fuck is the 6 division champ doing?
Even Oscar had no answer for it other then to blush about how well he had his jab pumping during the first portion of the fight-why didnt he continue landing the only punch he had available to land? Not even Oscar can tell you that.
Does anyone think that Ray Leonard wouldnt have understood where his strength against a fighter like Floyd was and where his weakness was? I do.
What am I saying, Why am I bringin up Ray Leonard every chance I get...surely I dont believe Oscar Delahoya is as great as Ray Leonard do I ...of course not so here's exactly what Im saying.
Ray never came up short when it mattered, all time great dont come up short when it mattered and the frustrating thing for Delahoya fans like myself is that Oscar has always been so damn close, he was right there against Tito and let it go, he faded in both fights blowing leads against Shane, he just seemed happy to be competitive against B-Hop and he fought like a wide eyed kid down the stretch against Floyd forgetting what seemd to be common knowledge...throw the fucking jab.
Ray Leonard would have taken Oscar's dead tired legs and his corners "stay away" advice and shoe shined the shit out of Tito in of of the remaining championships rounds and found away to avoid any controversey witha clear cut W.
Ray Leonard with Oscar's same gifts could have found a way to bother Hopkins even more then Oscar did, he could have found away to counteract the rounds 8 and 9 where Hopkins appeared to be gettign stronger...win or lose Ray Leonard with Oscar's ability would have found away to make that a toss up come decision time.
Oscar is a great fighter you dont win all the trinquets in all the weight classes he did and not be great but he can never ever be considered an all time great because an all time great is the complete package, the real deal and Sugar Ray Leonard although Im not one of his biggest fans would have found a way, he would have found away not to be great but to be an all timer with the exact same stuff that made Oscar just great...Oscar has just come up short too many times when it really mattered, all time great simply find away...
It was all there for Oscar, he just has never been able to do as he did against Ike...close the fucking show....too bad.
All Oscar should have done is ducked every good fighter after he beat Sweat Pea. People would call him great for beating up on a bunch of smaller fighters and retiring unbeaten. Oscar fought everybody. I wish other "all time greats" would have done the same.
I agree 100%. PacMan is doing it, PBF has not done it yet , but JMM is a good start. Oscar did struggle in some big fights, but as you said, He fought everybody, No fighter then or now would have went undefeated with that group of opponents.
Money Mayweather already fought the best competition. Its not his fought that most of these bandwagon fans don't know anything about his early career. He steamrolled the competition. He destroyed Corrales when Chico was on top. He won a controversial one against Castillo but beat him soundly again.
He's been wanted to fight all the top guys but all the top guys didn't want to fight him because they thot he was a nobody. Now that he's hot everybody is on his jock.
As far as Oscar goes, he could fuckin fight a boxingscene.com member and still sell 500,000 ppv's, you gotta respect the hustle and the hustler
if dlh isnt an all time great for fighting the best of his generation then what does that make pbf? just a great fighter?
that makes a lot of sense right there,
so lets say that floyd loses to dlh in september and then loses to cotto,
IMO he will be considered an ATG despite the loss
oscar got a bullsh!t gift decision for felix sturm... enough said.
I respect your posts on the most part but I can't back you on this one. I gave that fight a 7-5 for dlh and I gave Sturm the benefit of the doubt in the middle rounds where they were kinda tied. sturm definitley had the fight in the later rounds but dlh had most of the rounds.
and don't forget that dlh also got robbed against trinidad and in the second fight with mosley.
I'm not a huge fan of dlh but I do think he is an all-time top 30 fighter just cuz he fought the best possible fighter that he could in every point of his career. and he's never been knocked down other than the ko by liver-shot from hopkins. he has also won alot of titles in multiple divisions. so I'll give credit where credit is due.
my grandpa and other members of ma family were talkin bout boxin and we all rekoned that oscar isnt an all time great cos he is money hungry is only in the sport for $$$ and doesnt have the heart to go that last step or the drive to execute a gameplan properly (pbf) thats what makes him a good fighter not a great one. he was a brilliant amateur and he shoulda stayed amateur instead of turning pro he woulda picked up more gold and gone down as one of the best amateurs of all time
u do realize that most guys fight for money, and that the consensus greatest fighter of all-time, ray robinson, by his own admission, looked upon it as a business and did not enjoy boxing?
go the the 1:20 mark
or how about the words of the consensus greatest featherweight and top 10 all-time fighter willie pep?
http://philboxing.com/news/story-7938.html
"What I want is to do the best I can, make all the money I can, without getting hurt. To me, it's the art of self-defense."
When you coming back down to Florida Scappy? Hope you had a good Holiday season...Tell your wife RAE said Hi.
Anyway while I hugely respect Scaps opinion on boxing and in general. And while it's a great post I think you are a little hard on Oscar.......IMO he is and ATG.
thank you, he ducked no-one always fought the best, oscar takes risks,
floyd should follow his foot-steps and fight cotto instead of the easy asy out the door....if oscar was in pbf's shoes he would of unify titles a long time ago...this year will define his HOF status as an ATG after 3 more fights he needs 3 wins
Of course he is! an hold a few losses to fellow all timers against him some of those contraversial at that! Look at all he has achieved and the scalp he has taken, any 1 that says he aint an all time great imo is a hater and not viewing him fairley
sadly, he is an all time great because of his championshipsin diff weight classes
the different weight classes achievement have to be taken into context.
there are more titles nowadays, and different weigh-in rules.
can u picture de la fishnet making 130 or 135 back in the days when you had to weigh in on the same day?
the fishnet is a great, whether he's an atg is depending on one's perspective of what an atg really is.
Oscar was robbed v tito and Mosely 2. He is a great fighter imo there is no doubt about that. In the first Chavez fight he was brilliant, almost completely untouchable that night, it was one of the most dominant one sided performances (and he was still a kid) i have ever seen and theres no reason not to think that De la Hoya couldnt have held his own in any era
chavez was old even went they fought the first and second time. no way does delahoya beats chavez in his prime and the biggest wins oscar has on his carrier was against ike bazooka quarty and prenell whitaker and i thought he lost both fights. but i do agree that he is a HOF.