My personal thoughts on Mayweather's legacy.

What legacy? He's a primadonna of the highest order.....

Mayweather is full of himself. He's the best figher of his time but so was RJJ and neither ever came close to accomplishing what Greb, Ray Leonard or Robinson, Benny Leonard, etc did. He's completely delusional at this point and any time he tries to claim he's the greatest of all time I have to laugh at him. It's funny. Him crying after beating Baldomir as if it were a career defining fight is funny. Baldomir is much worse than Carmen Bassilio, who is far from the most impressive notch on Robinson's belt. Baldy is not even a Gene Fullmer to be honest. No offense to Mayweather, he's got serious skill and talent, but his resume is a joke compared to Harry Greb or Ray Robinson. He's like some brilliant young highschool kid thinking he's smarter than anyone in Harvard just because he never met anyone close to his intelligence in his hometown. Mayweather's great, but not THAT great. He has a shitload of work on his hands to even break the top ten P4P. As for him ever reaching that coveted #1 spot, he would have to fight 100-200 times with many big wins against top guys before he even comes close to matching a Greb or Robinson for me. You might say that's impossible. Okay, then it's impossible for him to ever top Robinson. I don't care if you think it's fair or not, I personally think it's unfair to cheapen what Robinson accomplished by saying "well guys fight less often these days so Mayweather has to do less to be comparable to those older guys". Its' not Mayweathers fault he lives in an era when boxing isn't a big sport anymore, but it should still hurt his ranking IMO. I stopped reading when I remembered you picked Baldomir to beat Floyd

Kid Achilles - you started an interesting thread. i basically agree with your opinions for the most part. as i've said in other threads, why doesn't floyd seek out tough fights! why? i can't think of a reason why not to. kostya tszyu, for example, went to hatton's backyard with questionable judges and one of the worst performances by a ref i had ever seen to get a tough fight against a young, hungry, undefeated boxer. he took a chance. i'm sure kostya would've given mayweather a fight if floyd really wanted to test himself. What I don't understand about Floyd and most of today's fighters in comparison to yesterday's legends. Ray Robinson cleaned out the welterweight division, fighting Zivic before he'd even been pro for a year...or just over a year, if memory serves me correctly. He wanted to prove he was the best and went through the divison like a weedeater through the underbrush, leaving no stone unturned. At Middleweight, he takes on LaMotta, Graziano, Turpin, Olson, Fulmer, Basilio, etc. that's why i bring up kostya tszyu. he has built his legend around cleaning out junior welter and also taking tough fights. the only knock you can give kostya is for not rematching the people who he lost to - well actually one as i've heard he wanted to fight hatton but hatton's team didn't think it was a wise business move.

What I don't understand about Floyd and most of today's fighters in comparison to yesterday's legends. Ray Robinson cleaned out the welterweight division, fighting Zivic before he'd even been pro for a year...or just over a year, if memory serves me correctly. He wanted to prove he was the best and went through the divison like a weedeater through the underbrush, leaving no stone unturned. At Middleweight, he takes on LaMotta, Graziano, Turpin, Olson, Fulmer, Basilio, etc. What's wrong with expectin Floyd to clean out the divsiions he claims to conquer? If you want to be "a legend", you don't have to be proded into taking on the best...you want to show you're the best, not just "tell everybody" you're the best....freakin' show them. That just chaps my ass about today's fighters, and, in this case, Floyd. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk...then, "show me the money!". Naw, man. Do you want to be rich or famous? Do you want to prove you're the best of all time or not? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with getting paid a buttload of money for your performance; but the win and the names on the gun belt are what makes a legend a legend...not how much money they retire with. History or Hypery; which do you want? That was always my problem with De La Hoya. He was always jumping divisions ala an old Leonard.....but at least he did take on the best, even if he didn't beat them all in their prime, or at all.

Guys like Mayweather are heavily hampered by the way the boxing industry works now. Fighters don't fight a lot, because they wait for HBO or Showtime slots, which are limited. The reason they wait for those slots is it's the only time they can make good money. The other problem is every promoter thinks their fighter is the greatest, so they demand top dollar, because that helps them line their own pockets. Some fighters, like Floyd, are heavily into the money aspect of the sport, and it tends to guide their decisions. Floyd will fight a weaker opponent for more money and more exposure. Unfortunately, he thinks he's the big draw in a fight with Oscar, so he'll demand huge money. I think a lot of the financial aspect of the sport is unfair, but realistically, with the way it works now, Oscar is the big draw in that fight and if Mayweather won't accept his terms, the fight won't happen. Mayweather can keep fighting in front of small crowds for all Oscar cares. I think it's hard to say Mayweather is one of the greatest fighters. I think you could say one of the greatest lightweights and make a decent case for it. For him to be one of the greatest fighters he's going to have to start putting more "names" on his record, instead of leaving empty slots and question marks as he jumps through weight classes. He is one of the most technically impressive fighters I've ever seen, but if he doesn't fight someone, there's no way to know he would have beat them. You can assume, but that doesn't really mean anything. The thing about guys like Ali and Robinson is they have losses but they fought ever single tough contender that was available.

One of the best "light weights" of all time. No more, no less. I would just mention his other fights in the higher divisions, but to just give icing to his light-weight career. But if he started fighting and beating what boxing fans wanted to see, then it will change my opinion of him.

Do you really think Mayweather got more than 8 million to fight Baldomir? I doubt it. I wonder if he made half that amount. I am willing to accept it, if someone can prove the numbers, but I don't think he made 8 mil fighting Baldomir. ESPN said it, and they dont just print anything, ESPN is more accredited than any promoter, or any boxing net site. They have more to lose printing fake shit, everything they print is confirmed unless its a trade rumour, this wasnt a rumour, it was listed as being confirmed several times.

Mayweather is full of himself. He's the best figher of his time but so was RJJ and neither ever came close to accomplishing what Greb, Ray Leonard or Robinson, Benny Leonard, etc did. He's completely delusional at this point and any time he tries to claim he's the greatest of all time I have to laugh at him. It's funny. Him crying after beating Baldomir as if it were a career defining fight is funny. Baldomir is much worse than Carmen Bassilio, who is far from the most impressive notch on Robinson's belt. Baldy is not even a Gene Fullmer to be honest. No offense to Mayweather, he's got serious skill and talent, but his resume is a joke compared to Harry Greb or Ray Robinson. He's like some brilliant young highschool kid thinking he's smarter than anyone in Harvard just because he never met anyone close to his intelligence in his hometown. Mayweather's great, but not THAT great. He has a shitload of work on his hands to even break the top ten P4P. As for him ever reaching that coveted #1 spot, he would have to fight 100-200 times with many big wins against top guys before he even comes close to matching a Greb or Robinson for me. You might say that's impossible. Okay, then it's impossible for him to ever top Robinson. I don't care if you think it's fair or not, I personally think it's unfair to cheapen what Robinson accomplished by saying "well guys fight less often these days so Mayweather has to do less to be comparable to those older guys". Its' not Mayweathers fault he lives in an era when boxing isn't a big sport anymore, but it should still hurt his ranking IMO. Achilles, are you a fighter or ex-fighter? If not, then we're gonna have to discredit your analysis even though it sounds well thought out and intelligient. :confused:

Do you really think Mayweather got more than 8 million to fight Baldomir? I doubt it. I wonder if he made half that amount. I am willing to accept it, if someone can prove the numbers, but I don't think he made 8 mil fighting Baldomir. why are you willing to accept he would get 8 million to fight Marg then? were those numbers ever proven? no

Do you really think Mayweather got more than 8 million to fight Baldomir? I doubt it. I wonder if he made half that amount. I am willing to accept it, if someone can prove the numbers, but I don't think he made 8 mil fighting Baldomir.

There is high public interest in a Margarito-Mayweather fight. Larry Merchant, and Boom Boom Mancini among others stated in video, video that can be viewed on youtube, that in their opinions Margarito is the biggest threat to Floyd. This is not a few hardcore fans trying to push for this fight, there is a big buzz on the internet over Margarito-Mayweather. It has the potential to be a big fight and many think Margarito has a chance, myself included. Everyone wants to see this fight except for Mayweather's jockriders. They'd prefer to see him go after an old De La Hoya with an injured arm who isn't interested in fighting. They want their hero to remain pampered and safe. Sorry Mayweather fans but eventually your idol will have to get in there with Margarito and then all the speculation and bullshit comes to an end and the truth reveals itself. I, and many others, would rather see pbf with someone with a better chance to land a punch on him. De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Mosley, Spinks... someone with more speed (all of the above also happen to have better resumes than marg btw) Margarito is going to be a must only if Floyd stays at 147.

That second response of mine pretty much said "okay if these guys are ducking him it still doesn't change the fact that he isn't fighting them". I'm conceeding that maybe it's not Mayweather's fault. Honestly, I don't care if it's Mayweather's fault or not, that is irrelevent. If he doesn't fight these guys for any reason, he doesn't go down in history as an all time great. My criticism for Mayweather is him avoiding Margarito and turning down 8 million dollars for a fight he supposedly thinks he can win. A little suspicious don't you think? What does he have to lose if he thinks so little of Margarito? 8 million to fight a supposed pushover? why fight a paper champ for 8mils, when you can fight the lineal champ for more than that. secondly, isnt it a bit suspicious that When the DLH fight fell apart last year, the money Arum said was on the table just vanished (he did not have it anymore, Arum said. Weird that Bob Arum never heard about banks...)?

Mayweather thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes by fighting a few top guys in each division and then moving up, while avoiding meaningful fights. He wants no part of Margarito, the guy we all want to see him fight, and instead wants to chase an old former fighter turned promoter named De La Hoya out of retirement but even there he is bidding himself out of the fight because of his arrogance and delusions of granduer. Mayweather is suddenly becoming a joke. He has the talent to remove all doubt as to where he stands but would rather tarnish his reputation and pull, as someone said, PR tricks then clear out these divisions. I'd rather a guy prove his mastery over a division before moving up personally. since that did not hurt Leonard's legacy, maybe he can pull it off as well

ODLH is not even remotely close to his prime. He's semi retired, has an injury in his arm that's been bothering him for a long time, and just plain isn't interested in fighting. This fight is only a bit more relevent than Lewis-Tyson. ODLH isn't quite shot like Tyson was but Mayweather is in his absolute prime unlike Lennox Lewis. If it happens it will be a mismatch. If you think for a second that ODLH beating a crude Mayorga who's power (his only real asset) is questionable at 154 proves he's even 70% the fighter he was in his prime, you're crazy. Margarito is a MUCH, MUCH bigger thread to Mayweather. If Mayweather is hell bent on moving up (though he hasn't come close to clearing out the welterweight division), he should fight Winky Wright. He is much better at this point than Oscar. You are hypothetically correct in that Margarito is a bigger threat to Mayweather than is De La Hoya; but an Oscar-Floyd match represents the "passing of the torch" ceremony from the superstar of the past to the superstar of the future, which is why more people will buy it...more people know De La Hoya than know Margarito. Just as Chavez was long past his best when De La Hoya beat him the first time and Whitaker was past his best when De La Hoya got the decision and the Welterweight Crown, so this fight is necessary for the fans. It's symbolic, that's all; new lion vs old lion. (Personally, I don't think Margarito is as good as Williams; but that's another thread)

ODLH is not even remotely close to his prime. He's semi retired, has an injury in his arm that's been bothering him for a long time, and just plain isn't interested in fighting. This fight is only a bit more relevent than Lewis-Tyson. ODLH isn't quite shot like Tyson was but Mayweather is in his absolute prime unlike Lennox Lewis. If it happens it will be a mismatch. If you think for a second that ODLH beating a crude Mayorga who's power (his only real asset) is questionable at 154 proves he's even 70% the fighter he was in his prime, you're crazy. Margarito is a MUCH, MUCH bigger thread to Mayweather. If Mayweather is hell bent on moving up (though he hasn't come close to clearing out the welterweight division), he should fight Winky Wright. He is much better at this point than Oscar.

Mayweather thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes by fighting a few top guys in each division and then moving up, while avoiding meaningful fights. He wants no part of Margarito, the guy we all want to see him fight, and instead wants to chase an old former fighter turned promoter named De La Hoya out of retirement but even there he is bidding himself out of the fight because of his arrogance and delusions of granduer. Mayweather is suddenly becoming a joke. He has the talent to remove all doubt as to where he stands but would rather tarnish his reputation and pull, as someone said, PR tricks then clear out these divisions. I'd rather a guy prove his mastery over a division before moving up personally. Achilles man you lost it here. De La Hoya on his worst day is a hundred times the fighter Margarito is.

There is high public interest in a Margarito-Mayweather fight. Larry Merchant, and Boom Boom Mancini among others stated in video, video that can be viewed on youtube, that in their opinions Margarito is the biggest threat to Floyd. This is not a few hardcore fans trying to push for this fight, there is a big buzz on the internet over Margarito-Mayweather. It has the potential to be a big fight and many think Margarito has a chance, myself included. Everyone wants to see this fight except for Mayweather's jockriders. They'd prefer to see him go after an old De La Hoya with an injured arm who isn't interested in fighting. They want their hero to remain pampered and safe. Sorry Mayweather fans but eventually your idol will have to get in there with Margarito and then all the speculation and bullshit comes to an end and the truth reveals itself. You cant accuse people who want to see the biggest superfight of the last 15 years, and yes, THATS EXACTLY what this would be, mayweather sr training DLH for his retirement against his SON who is p4p number1, there is no other fight in boxing bigger than this, yet anyone who wants to see this is a "jockrider". Here is the problem, instead of getting into the mindframe that everyone is a dickrider/nuthugger etc etc, think logically about knowing that some fans are objective while agreeing with a certain point and it DOES NOT dictate into being a "dickrider". SUPERFIGHTS are whats stopping mayweather from being an alltime great, Margarito, at this point, IS NOT A SUPERFIGHT. And thats nobodies fault but margaritos, its his fault he couldnt win his title shot, its his fault hes wained in a division 10 plus years while accomplishing just about nothing, this is all his fault. The 4 losses, while he was young and up and coming, are his fault, while the people ducking him in previous years arent his problem, his lack of ability to step up in his oppurtunity and WIN are his problem. How you gonna be in boxing this long and accomplish virtually nothing but a win over kermit cintron? Oh, and manny steward etc were also clammoring for floyd to fight him too. Margarito IS a fight i wanna see, BUT NOT over a superfight, and thats the same with every other CASUAL fan, not some fuckin boxing enthusiests who wanna see margarito land a lucky shot, because thats all people are waiting for.

I agree with the majority of your post. If Mayweather cleaned out 147 and beat guys like Margarito, Cotto, Hatton, etc the same way that he beat Baldomir I think that there would be no room left to argue whether he was an all-time great or not. He is already a great lightweight who would be competitive (or would beat) with anyone who fought at 130 and 135. He does have a LONG way to go if he's thinking he's going to be remembered alongside the Leonards and Haglers of boxing though.

There is high public interest in a Margarito-Mayweather fight. Larry Merchant, and Boom Boom Mancini among others stated in video, video that can be viewed on youtube, that in their opinions Margarito is the biggest threat to Floyd. This is not a few hardcore fans trying to push for this fight, there is a big buzz on the internet over Margarito-Mayweather. It has the potential to be a big fight and many think Margarito has a chance, myself included. Everyone wants to see this fight except for Mayweather's jockriders. They'd prefer to see him go after an old De La Hoya with an injured arm who isn't interested in fighting. They want their hero to remain pampered and safe. Sorry Mayweather fans but eventually your idol will have to get in there with Margarito and then all the speculation and bullshit comes to an end and the truth reveals itself.

Fighters are supposed to fight, period. If you're a fighter you do what you have to do do get fights, if the fighters are unproven, the beat the ass and take the money. If there's a fighter who's more established than you and has accomplished more, you take short money to get the fight and beat the man so you can be the man and then you dictate what happens. Either way, a fighter should be trying to get fights, not simply telling everyone that he would win so there's no point in fighting him, in boxing you can have all the talent and skills in the world, but until you do it, it's all irrelevent.