Proof that God exists!

[Spartacus Sully]

You mean miracles as in a highly improbable or extraordinary event, or accomplishment

Or the kind where Jesus walked on water?

At one time it was considered at miracle that Christopher Columbus didnt fall off the edge of the planet on his way to "Asia"

the intelligent people of the world have known the world was round and calculated it to appox 24500 miles, since 400 bc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
The misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as "The Myth of the Flat Earth".[6] In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth
This idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the Members of the Historical Association in 1945 stated that:

"The idea that educated men at the time of Columbus believed that the earth was flat, and that this belief was one of the obstacles to be overcome by Columbus before he could get his project sanctioned, remains one of the hardiest errors in teaching."

[UglyPug]

everybody ENTER PUG CHAT ROOM to discuss

[MarloS04]

But its Catholic principle to thrust your belief upon others

Creationism is taught as fact in Christianity. It shouldn't be immune to scrutiny.

It isnt. But i went to 2 catholic schools and was never taught creationism. Dont know anyone who was.

How is it meant to be read them? not literally?

I guess the only way to understand something is to believe in it

At least in religion that is

Religious people read certain things in the bible that inspire them and enrich their livers. Thats it.
Its amazing how many anti-religious people want to caricature religion so they have something to b1tch about. And by doing so atheists are becoming just as annoying as the religious zealots they hate so much.

Yes you're suppose to

Whether you personally do is different

lol, every christian here has told you they dont preach. Yet you tell them they should be, yet talk about how annoying preaching is. Thats a little counterproductive if you ask me. lol
Again, picking on the minority yet talking about religion as a whole. That doesnt work. Religious people cherry pick parts of the bible they like, and you atheists cherry pick parts of religion you dont like. Hmmm.

[Spartacus Sully]

lol, every christian here has told you they dont preach. Yet you tell them they should be, yet talk about how annoying preaching is. Thats a little counterproductive if you ask me.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[squealpiggy]

It isnt. But i went to 2 catholic schools and was never taught creationism. Dont know anyone who was.

Official catholic doctrine is theistic evolution. Which is nonsense of course, the idea behind it is that evolution happened but god guided it apparently in such a manner as to make it look exactly like there was no guidance in the process.

But it's better than young earth creationism which is a relatively new phenomenon and it a predominantly American protestant one.

Religious people read certain things in the bible that inspire them and enrich their livers. Thats it.

That typo is amazing!

The thing is that this isn't the start and finish of religious behaviour. If it was then I'd have no problem at all with religion. I think for most religious people this is true, but for a vocal minority it isn't enough for them to get inspiration from the bible: They have to insist that the bible is the only moral guide of relevance, that it is true in its entirety and that it's the basis of modern civilisation.

I'm OK with being wrong but I draw the line when they start insisting that they are so right that they should make the rules for the rest of us.

Its amazing how many anti-religious people want to caricature religion so they have something to b1tch about. And by doing so atheists are becoming just as annoying as the religious zealots they hate so much.

Well the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

lol, every christian here has told you they dont preach. Yet you tell them they should be, yet talk about how annoying preaching is. Thats a little counterproductive if you ask me. lol

You mean like enayze and xfrodobagginsx?

One interesting issue is that people profess to be christians and yet they know very little about what their supposed faith demands of them. They make platitudes about being a good person and being nice to strangers but really that's peripheral to the central message of the bible which is about submission to Jesus.

Again, picking on the minority yet talking about religion as a whole. That doesnt work. Religious people cherry pick parts of the bible they like, and you atheists cherry pick parts of religion you dont like. Hmmm.

Religion claims to be the absolute truth without actually being true. Truth is important to me. My atheism is about my personal relationship with reality.

As for your cherry picking accusation, well nobody is going to look at the few parts of the bible that are worthwhile and scoff at them as being unworthy sentiments. I have no reason to. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. That doesn't mean that I have to despise the few parts of religion that talk about fellowship or forgiveness.

[joe strong]

how many millions of people over the centuries have died in the name of "GOD"? i don't know if there is a god or not but i will say he sure is tolerant...this jesus walked on water thing...i can walk on water 6 months a year where i live but this water to wine thing really intrigues me. since the romans use to have huge drinking orgies you think they would have had him as a party guest & not hanging from a cross...

[squealpiggy]

how many millions of people over the centuries have died in the name of "GOD"? i don't know if there is a god or not but i will say he sure is tolerant...this jesus walked on water thing...i can walk on water 6 months a year where i live but this water to wine thing really intrigues me. since the romans use to have huge drinking orgies you think they would have had him as a party guest & not hanging from a cross...

Turning water into wine was done by Dionysus. Dionysus also was killed and came back to life. Walking on water is a popular Buddhist myth.

[MarloS04]

Official catholic doctrine is theistic evolution. Which is nonsense of course, the idea behind it is that evolution happened but god guided it apparently in such a manner as to make it look exactly like there was no guidance in the process.

But it's better than young earth creationism which is a relatively new phenomenon and it a predominantly American protestant one.

Official catholic doctrine is overlooked by nearly all catholics. They just use their faith for peace of mind.

The thing is that this isn't the start and finish of religious behaviour. If it was then I'd have no problem at all with religion. I think for most religious people this is true, but for a vocal minority it isn't enough for them to get inspiration from the bible: They have to insist that the bible is the only moral guide of relevance, that it is true in its entirety and that it's the basis of modern civilisation.

I'm OK with being wrong but I draw the line when they start insisting that they are so right that they should make the rules for the rest of us.

Aggressive anti-religious campaigns should target the extremism then. Not religion as a whole, which it always does.

Well the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

lol. Witty, but also evasive of my point. Which you know is true. Truth is important to you isnt it?

You mean like enayze and xfrodobagginsx?

Read what you highlighted again. "Every christian here has told you they dont preach" Was i talking about enayze or frodo? Clearly not. But again you dumb yourself down for arguments sake.

One interesting issue is that people profess to be christians and yet they know very little about what their supposed faith demands of them. They make platitudes about being a good person and being nice to strangers but really that's peripheral to the central message of the bible which is about submission to Jesus.

yes, most christians dont follow the bible word for word, they take what helps them and is of benifit to society and ignore the rest. Just like most atheists preach about intelligence and a progressive society yet prefer to b1tch about religion as a hobby instead of actively helping social cohesion. They'd rather p1ss off all religious people for their own amusement. How intelligent!

Religion claims to be the absolute truth without actually being true. Truth is important to me. My atheism is about my personal relationship with reality.

There is more then one truth. Truth is, religion helps people everyday on a personal level. And they dont go around protesting the big bang and evolution. That doesnt concern them. So there is what their religion says, and more importantly, how the religious act. Dont criticise them for ignoring the immoral stupid parts.

As for your cherry picking accusation, well nobody is going to look at the few parts of the bible that are worthwhile and scoff at them as being unworthy sentiments. I have no reason to. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. That doesn't mean that I have to despise the few parts of religion that talk about fellowship or forgiveness.

Yet those few parts are what make up 90% of religious peoples world view.

[squealpiggy]

Official catholic doctrine is overlooked by nearly all catholics. They just use their faith for peace of mind.

Most catholics in my experience (and I come from a catholic family) are cultural catholics. They send their kids to catholic school, they get married in church, they have the final rites, they may even go to church every Sunday. But actually believe in it?

Aggressive anti-religious campaigns should target the extremism then. Not religion as a whole, which it always does.

What aggressive campaigns?

lol. Witty, but also evasive of my point. Which you know is true. Truth is important to you isnt it?

It is the truth. You're putting yourself as a moderate religious person as the "reasonable middle ground" between crazy religious fundamentalists and those wacky extremist atheists. Just because you don't take your religion to extremes doesn't make the minutiae of your beliefs any less ridiculous than they are for witch burners and gay haters.

Read what you highlighted again. "Every christian here has told you they dont preach" Was i talking about enayze or frodo? Clearly not. But again you dumb yourself down for arguments sake.

Because what two people who claim to be christians say that they don't preach (in a preachy tone, I might add...) then EVERY christian here has made that claim? Christians often preach. FACT.

yes, most christians dont follow the bible word for word, they take what helps them and is of benifit to society and ignore the rest.

Which is fine. That's my philosophy to reading: Take whatever message works for you and discard it if it doesn't. But then again I reference more than one book. And also I don't claim that my opinion is objective truth!

That's the kicker: Take the bits you like and then discard the rest. But don't then cite your source as the ultimate authority on everything!

Just like most atheists preach about intelligence and a progressive society yet prefer to b1tch about religion as a hobby instead of actively helping social cohesion. They'd rather p1ss off all religious people for their own amusement. How intelligent!

Social cohesion increases as religious piety decreases. Religion is at its heart a divisive construct. The world is separated into saved and unsaved, clean and unclean, in and out. The less seriously people take their personal faith the better off everyone is.

There is more then one truth. Truth is, religion helps people everyday on a personal level.

I've highlighted the important word here. Personal. Not me. Not society. Not government. Not even your own kids. Personal.

And they dont go around protesting the big bang and evolution. That doesnt concern them.

It concerns a lot of people though, doesn't it? What is it, 40% of Americans don't "believe in" evolution? Four out of four Republican nominees claim they are creationists? You could have a man with his finger on the button who thinks that the earth was once covered in water and one man saved all the animals in a big wooden boat.

So there is what their religion says, and more importantly, how the religious act. Dont criticise them for ignoring the immoral stupid parts.

And I would argue that the majority of religious people don't know what their religion demands of them. Those that do are people we deem to be extremists.

[Canelo Phresh]

Official catholic doctrine is theistic evolution. Which is nonsense of course, the idea behind it is that evolution happened but god guided it apparently in such a manner as to make it look exactly like there was no guidance in the process.

But it's better than young earth creationism which is a relatively new phenomenon and it a predominantly American protestant one.



That typo is amazing!

The thing is that this isn't the start and finish of religious behaviour. If it was then I'd have no problem at all with religion. I think for most religious people this is true, but for a vocal minority it isn't enough for them to get inspiration from the bible: They have to insist that the bible is the only moral guide of relevance, that it is true in its entirety and that it's the basis of modern civilisation.

I'm OK with being wrong but I draw the line when they start insisting that they are so right that they should make the rules for the rest of us.



Well the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.



You mean like enayze and xfrodobagginsx?

One interesting issue is that people profess to be christians and yet they know very little about what their supposed faith demands of them. They make platitudes about being a good person and being nice to strangers but really that's peripheral to the central message of the bible which is about submission to Jesus.



Religion claims to be the absolute truth without actually being true. Truth is important to me. My atheism is about my personal relationship with reality.

As for your cherry picking accusation, well nobody is going to look at the few parts of the bible that are worthwhile and scoff at them as being unworthy sentiments. I have no reason to. I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. That doesn't mean that I have to despise the few parts of religion that talk about fellowship or forgiveness.

what are you going to say to gnish when you die?