Bench or push?

[Piggu]

Are push ups more effective than Bench pressing? This guy in my 8th period (Sophmore) does around 400 push ups a day, and he barely started benching since he joined football. He says he uses 200lbs to warm up. So, which is more effective? Benching or push ups?

You have 8 periods?

[potatoes]

I think this little quote is enough to prove your ignorance. If a boxer isn't strong, he has no strength to apply. With no strength to apply, the other guy will walk right through you.
Conversely, if he IS strong, he has more strength to apply. If you can't see the logic in that, clearly it's because you DON'T WANT TO.

And yes, of course you still need to be able to apply the strength for it to work, but having strength (and working on it) doesn't magically evaporate the ability to box, like you seem to think. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

What you're doing is overemphasizing ONE of the attributes a boxer needs, and then claiming another attribute isn't needed. It's BS though.

Clearly any halfway intelligent person will realize that a boxer needs a blend of the followibng attributes:

Endurance
Strength
Speed
Ability

If you take one of those away completely, you will NOT be able to box, period.

The more you have of each, the more complete you will be.

How the hell did boxers ever survive before the weightlifting fad began?

[PunchDrunk]

How the hell did boxers ever survive before the weightlifting fad began?

Is that all you have to say to that? I just gave you a thorough answer, that should make sense, even to you, and that's all you have to say?

Just answer this: Does a boxer not need strength? It takes strength to even stand up!

Well, I'll be more polite than you are, and actually address what you said:

First of all, I'd hesitate with the fad tag if I were you. :P

Second, to put into perspective, boxers have always worked on their strength in one way or another. But like all the other training components, things evolve. Boxers a hundred years ago were much more crude, technically too, than today. Just take a look at Jack Dempsey. The guy never threw a straight punch in his life, and I bet he never paracticed throwing one either. That has all changed, no one could ever become heavyweight champion with Dempsey's style of boxing today. And this is in spite of the lack of talent in the heavies today!

I'm not saying you HAVE to lift weights to be a good boxer, but if you take a good boxer and puts him on a proper training program to increase his strength, and then work on converting that to power, you'll have the same boxer, with more strength and power than he had without it. It really is THAT simple, I can't believe you can't understand that. I think you don't WANT to admit it.

[Nelson da Cruz]

Yes, I have noticed you people like to play games with samantics. Weightlifting.....weight training......who gives a ****? Boxers started weight training in the 1970's and there is no proof it did them any good! After 30 years of doing whatever with weights something beneficial should have happened, if it was going to. Show us the proof of more knockouts, faster hands, higher punch rate over more rounds? Wake up sonny there is no proof! If you had the proof you would show it to us.

Ok, lets play the game a little further. You are now going to ask me to prove it has not been of any benefit. Of course that is logical impossibility, but then who give a **** about logic?

You are like Punchdrunk said, truly ignorant Potatoes. Weight training and weightlifting are as different as shadow boxing and actual boxing, but you don't give a **** because you don't have an open mind and you're also stuck in the past.

Weights won't make a boxer have faster hands (how the **** could they???), a higher punch rate or have more knockouts. Weights will make a boxer stronger, in better physical condition and with more muscle endurance. All things being equal a stronger fighter will beat a weaker fighter.

The proof is that boxers (and martial artists, thai boxers, etc) all use some sort of weights and resistance training to help them.

And if it has no benefit then why the **** are they doing it??

[Cutthroat]

You have 8 periods?

1-8th Period.

[potatoes]

You are like Punchdrunk said, truly ignorant Potatoes. Weight training and weightlifting are as different as shadow boxing and actual boxing, but you don't give a **** because you don't have an open mind and you're also stuck in the past.

Weights won't make a boxer have faster hands (how the **** could they???), a higher punch rate or have more knockouts. Weights will make a boxer stronger, in better physical condition and with more muscle endurance. All things being equal a stronger fighter will beat a weaker fighter.

The proof is that boxers (and martial artists, thai boxers, etc) all use some sort of weights and resistance training to help them.

And if it has no benefit then why the **** are they doing it??

Why did Rocky Marciano force his weight down to 183, and even lower at times? He would often gain 30 pounds or more between fights and that is despite running 5 or 10 miles a day. We all tend to reflect the times in which we live. In those days it was commonly believed that more mass equalled less speed and less power. The ease at which Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis dispatched much larger opponents would lend some credence to that view.

In today's world increased muscle strength is equated with better performance. It is justified by the experience of Olympic athletes some of whom can clearly document performance enhancement through weight training. But what works for sprinters does not necessarily work for boxers. The training theorists in this forum talk about all the things that could happen in theory. They claim that punching power and hand speed is increased by weight training, but there have been no controlled studies done to prove this. If hand speed and punching power is increased there would have to be more knockouts unless weight training increases the resistance to concussion. So far they haven't made that ridiculous claim, but stay tuned, sooner or later they are going to start saying that too.

[Nelson da Cruz]

Why did Rocky Marciano force his weight down to 183, and even lower at times? He would often gain 30 pounds or more between fights and that is despite running 5 or 10 miles a day. We all tend to reflect the times in which we live. In those days it was commonly believed that more mass equalled less speed and less power. The ease at which Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis dispatched much larger opponents would lend some credence to that view.

In today's world increased muscle strength is equated with better performance. It is justified by the experience of Olympic athletes some of whom can clearly document performance enhancement through weight training. But what works for sprinters does not necessarily work for boxers. The training theorists in this forum talk about all the things that could happen in theory. They claim that punching power and hand speed is increased by weight training, but there have been no controlled studies done to prove this. If hand speed and punching power is increased there would have to be more knockouts unless weight training increases the resistance to concussion. So far they haven't made that ridiculous claim, but stay tuned, sooner or later they are going to start saying that too.

At last you are putting forward a reasonable argument without resorting to BS claims

I cannot see how weights could improve hand speed, but it should certainly improve punching power because the punch is generated from the legs, hips and shoulders so it stands to reason that if you make these stronger then the punch should be stronger too, shouldnt it?

You don't have to carry excess mass and bulk to be stronger and you shouldn't be doing tons of weights. Just a few basic core, compound exercises that work multiple bodyparts will promote strength and muscle condition and muscle endurance.

There are great benefits of weight training but the right exercises have to be selected so that they will aid performance, not hinder it. Keep an open mind to these arguments Potatoes, or at least do some research regarding weight training, slow/fast twitch muscle fibres, osteoporosis, etc and you'll see that it's not the devil you think it is.

[eazy_mas]

Are push ups more effective than Bench pressing? This guy in my 8th period (Sophmore) does around 400 push ups a day, and he barely started benching since he joined football. He says he uses 200lbs to warm up. So, which is more effective? Benching or push ups?

use both if you cant choose one of them.

[hemichromis]

Why did Rocky Marciano force his weight down to 183, and even lower at times? He would often gain 30 pounds or more between fights and that is despite running 5 or 10 miles a day. We all tend to reflect the times in which we live. In those days it was commonly believed that more mass equalled less speed and less power. The ease at which Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis dispatched much larger opponents would lend some credence to that view.

In today's world increased muscle strength is equated with better performance. It is justified by the experience of Olympic athletes some of whom can clearly document performance enhancement through weight training. But what works for sprinters does not necessarily work for boxers. The training theorists in this forum talk about all the things that could happen in theory. They claim that punching power and hand speed is increased by weight training, but there have been no controlled studies done to prove this. If hand speed and punching power is increased there would have to be more knockouts unless weight training increases the resistance to concussion. So far they haven't made that ridiculous claim, but stay tuned, sooner or later they are going to start saying that too.

marciano used to get so light to improve his endurance he had the best stamina of any boxer

heavyweight nowadays dont bother this results in them taking breaks and losing the aggression after a few rounds.
the reason current heavyweights are slower then boxers of 20+ years has been falsly blamed on weightlifting, i believe the real reason is that they don't bother making weight before a fight and go in flabby.


you say there are no studies to prove that weightlifting does increase punching power; are you aware of any studies that disprove it?

[PunchDrunk]

marciano used to get so light to improve his endurance he had the best stamina of any boxer

heavyweight nowadays dont bother this results in them taking breaks and losing the aggression after a few rounds.
the reason current heavyweights are slower then boxers of 20+ years has been falsly blamed on weightlifting, i believe the real reason is that they don't bother making weight before a fight and go in flabby.

Good point!