Weightlifting

[Coreano]

Boxers started pumping iron in the 1970's. After 30 years of weightlifting there is no proof that they are fitter or stronger. All we hear is claims, but not a shred of evidence. What the evidence clearly shows is that most of them are unable to fight 12 hard rounds. That is why you hear guys like Manny Steward saying on HBO that it is normal for boxers to take a round off. What he doesn't mention that taking a round off did not become come until the 1970's. But of course that is just a coincidence!

ok if thats what you belive then whatver, but why make a post condeming all those who advocate weight usage?

[potatoes]

ok if thats what you belive then whatver, but why make a post condeming all those who advocate weight usage?

Tony Zale once said: "Boxing is the only sport that never went to college."

Everybody in boxing is pumping iron, but the vast majority are doing it improperly, assuming there really is a proper way of doing it. I'm am not conviced that weightlifting is theorectically beneficial, nevertheless, the fact is weightlifting in the real world of boxing is nothing more than a destructive habit. Most boxers have to dehydrate themselves to make weight, often to the tune of 10 to 15 percent of their body weight. It is little wonder men are dieing in the ring. They wouldn't be gaining so much weight between fights if they concentrated on old fashioned training methods.

[BigDozer260]

They wouldn't be gaining so much weight between fights if they concentrated on old fashioned training methods.[/QUOTE]

No, they wouldn't gain so much weight if they stayed away from the dinner table 12 less times per day. If you are trying to tell me that the 20-30 extra lbs Hatton puts on is muscle, you're crazy. Or that Toney's distended belly is the result of weightlifting....Please! The diet of todays athletes are the reasons they cannot maintain proper weight. Scientifically speaking,weightlifting at high intensities increases fast twitch fiber activation. But that just what ignorant scientist have found using a ****** neutron microscope and dumbass muscle biopsy. Nobody ever sayed lift weight and knock people out, it doesn't work that way. Lift weight at proper intensities, properly increase skill sets for you sport, and shorten the time between mind and muscle contraction. Who doesn't want to be able to contract their muscle faster and more forcefully? I don't care if anyone ever lifts weights, it's just not everybodys' thing, but don't tell other it's bad if you don't even know what the true purpose of weight training is.

[potatoes]

They wouldn't be gaining so much weight between fights if they concentrated on old fashioned training methods.

No, they wouldn't gain so much weight if they stayed away from the dinner table 12 less times per day. If you are trying to tell me that the 20-30 extra lbs Hatton puts on is muscle, you're crazy. Or that Toney's distended belly is the result of weightlifting....Please! The diet of todays athletes are the reasons they cannot maintain proper weight. Scientifically speaking,weightlifting at high intensities increases fast twitch fiber activation. But that just what ignorant scientist have found using a ****** neutron microscope and dumbass muscle biopsy. Nobody ever sayed lift weight and knock people out, it doesn't work that way. Lift weight at proper intensities, properly increase skill sets for you sport, and shorten the time between mind and muscle contraction. Who doesn't want to be able to contract their muscle faster and more forcefully? I don't care if anyone ever lifts weights, it's just not everybodys' thing, but don't tell other it's bad if you don't even know what the true purpose of weight training is.[/QUOTE]



Maybe I don't know the true purpose of weightlifting, but then nobody else in boxing does either. After 30 years of weightlifting boxers have clearly shown no improvement in performance nor results.

[Smokin']

as much as you guys hate to admit it...potatoes is speaking the truth. Fighters take rounds off these days. That never happened back in the day. NEVER!!

[PunchDrunk]

as much as you guys hate to admit it...potatoes is speaking the truth. Fighters take rounds off these days. That never happened back in the day. NEVER!!

You AND potatoes are both delirious. Yeas fighters took rounds off back then. Generally speaking their fights were at a lower pace (not the special fights, but hey, that's what made them special!), and the skill level.... man, have you actually WATCHED the socalled greatest ever, Sugar Ray Robinson?? Yeah he was dominant at the time, but look at his moves. Look at his athleticism. He wouldn't even be a top10 fighter today.

In the 100m sprint, they have the records to indicate exactly who is the fastest man ever. In American football, the guys have obviously become MUCH bigger and faster than before.

Boxing has a 100% subjective scoring system. There's no accurate way to match up the old with the new. THIS - is the only reason puppets like you can make these outrageous claims. Well, it doesn't make you any less ******ed. All it takes is LOOKING at those actual fights, and a little common sense. I'm guessing you both are lacking in BOTH departments.

And to claim that the decline in boxings mainstream popularity, along with this alleged decline in skill and quality is all because of weight training...

[Smokin']

You AND potatoes are both delirious. Yeas fighters took rounds off back then. Generally speaking their fights were at a lower pace (not the special fights, but hey, that's what made them special!), and the skill level.... man, have you actually WATCHED the socalled greatest ever, Sugar Ray Robinson?? Yeah he was dominant at the time, but look at his moves. Look at his athleticism. He wouldn't even be a top10 fighter today.

In the 100m sprint, they have the records to indicate exactly who is the fastest man ever. In American football, the guys have obviously become MUCH bigger and faster than before.

Boxing has a 100% subjective scoring system. There's no accurate way to match up the old with the new. THIS - is the only reason puppets like you can make these outrageous claims. Well, it doesn't make you any less ******ed. All it takes is LOOKING at those actual fights, and a little common sense. I'm guessing you both are lacking in BOTH departments.

And to claim that the decline in boxings mainstream popularity, along with this alleged decline in skill and quality is all because of weight training...

I think you're the delusional one. What potatoes said is right, After 30 years of weightlifting there is no proof that they are fitter or stronger. THe only 'proof' I hear is you spouting your mouth about football and sprinters which is totally unrelated. For the most part, football is based on a little bit of technique mixed with getting bigger, stronger, faster - basically a power sport. Sprinting is the same way...the guys are built for short, short distances and that is totally unrelated to boxing which is an endurance sport.

ANd yes I have seen tape of all the greats. Robinson, Duran, Louis, Ali, ... you name it. It's no secret that today all we have is a bunch of athletes, not pure boxers. OF course we have the exceptions like Winky Wright, Mayweather, Hopkins who would be successful in any era but the guys of yesteryear are much more skilled, much more.

ANd its a majority of reasons why the skill level in boxing has decreased. A big reason is that we are in the technology era. Cell phones, computers, video games, you name it. Fighters today are as coddled and protected as can be. Fighters back then fought and fought and fought some more to make some money. I don't remember hearing about any fighter sitting on a fight for 6 months like the guys today. The only way to increase skill level is through sparring and real time simulation...which was how all of the greats trained.

[PunchDrunk]

I think you're the delusional one. What potatoes said is right, After 30 years of weightlifting there is no proof that they are fitter or stronger. THe only 'proof' I hear is you spouting your mouth about football and sprinters which is totally unrelated. For the most part, football is based on a little bit of technique mixed with getting bigger, stronger, faster - basically a power sport. Sprinting is the same way...the guys are built for short, short distances and that is totally unrelated to boxing which is an endurance sport.

ANd yes I have seen tape of all the greats. Robinson, Duran, Louis, Ali, ... you name it. It's no secret that today all we have is a bunch of athletes, not pure boxers. OF course we have the exceptions like Winky Wright, Mayweather, Hopkins who would be successful in any era but the guys of yesteryear are much more skilled, much more.

ANd its a majority of reasons why the skill level in boxing has decreased. A big reason is that we are in the technology era. Cell phones, computers, video games, you name it. Fighters today are as coddled and protected as can be. Fighters back then fought and fought and fought some more to make some money. I don't remember hearing about any fighter sitting on a fight for 6 months like the guys today. The only way to increase skill level is through sparring and real time simulation...which was how all of the greats trained.

If you've ever seen a Robinson fight, and you seriously think his technical qualities are up to par with today, then you know nothing about boxing. Fighters back then were CRUDE. I hear all these boxing "historians talking about how he could do all these things. Sure, he was ahead of his time, but come on, the man could barely throw a straight punch. He had great natural ability, but his technical skills weren't as developed, simply because boxing wasn't as advanced back then

The fact that fighters today don't fight as often as they used to is actually because of the opposite of what you seem to think. It's partly because the 12 round fights of today are so taxing on a fighters health that they have to heal up before fighting again, let alone get back into serious training.

There's a lot more to training skill, than sparring, which you'd know if you ever trained any fighters.

Saying that boxing is an endurance sport is reducing boxing to just ONE of the many things boxing is.
Boxing is a skill sport.
Boxing is a power sport.
Boxing is a speed sport.
Boxing is a tactical sport.
Boxing is a speed sport.
Yes, you need endurance in boxing, but the longest boxing fights are less than 1 hour. Any other sport in the world, called an endurance sport is a lot longer than that. Is soccer an endurance sport? They run for 1½ hours.

Boxing is a sport of many demands. Calling it an endurance sport is a cliché, and a bad one. Here's why; If you don't have the endurance to go 12 rounds (not many boxers in the world have to go that long. Only a handful of elite pro's. The vast majority of boxers fight WAY less time than that!), you'll probably lose once you get worn down. However this may take a while.
If you don't have the SKILL, you WILL lose, and probably FAST. Therefore boxing is more of a skill sport, if you HAVE to point out the one element that is most important. Doing this is foolish though. Here's why: Any boxer with more, in one of the categories I mentioned above, than his opponent, might win. You simply cannot say in advance, what the deciding factor in a fight will be (which is obviously why a smart trainer tries to make sure his fighter's covered in EVERY department). If boxing was an endurance sport, you could send your fighters running 20 miles everyday, and they'd never lose.


I find it funny, that you're trying to reinvent yourself on this board, as some kind of authority on all things boxing. It was just a short while ago, you were PM'ing me asking for workout plans etc. As a bunch of other people on this site can confirm, I'm usually pretty helpful when people take the time to ask me. You I didn't help, because it didn't feel right. Now I'm glad I didn't.

[Smokin']

If you've ever seen a Robinson fight, and you seriously think his technical qualities are up to par with today, then you know nothing about boxing. Fighters back then were CRUDE. I hear all these boxing "historians talking about how he could do all these things. Sure, he was ahead of his time, but come on, the man could barely throw a straight punch. He had great natural ability, but his technical skills weren't as developed, simply because boxing wasn't as advanced back then

The fact that fighters today don't fight as often as they used to is actually because of the opposite of what you seem to think. It's partly because the 12 round fights of today are so taxing on a fighters health that they have to heal up before fighting again, let alone get back into serious training.

There's a lot more to training skill, than sparring, which you'd know if you ever trained any fighters.

Saying that boxing is an endurance sport is reducing boxing to just ONE of the many things boxing is.
Boxing is a skill sport.
Boxing is a power sport.
Boxing is a speed sport.
Boxing is a tactical sport.
Boxing is a speed sport.
Yes, you need endurance in boxing, but the longest boxing fights are less than 1 hour. Any other sport in the world, called an endurance sport is a lot longer than that. Is soccer an endurance sport? They run for 1½ hours.

Boxing is a sport of many demands. Calling it an endurance sport is a cliché, and a bad one. Here's why; If you don't have the endurance to go 12 rounds (not many boxers in the world have to go that long. Only a handful of elite pro's. The vast majority of boxers fight WAY less time than that!), you'll probably lose once you get worn down. However this may take a while.
If you don't have the SKILL, you WILL lose, and probably FAST. Therefore boxing is more of a skill sport, if you HAVE to point out the one element that is most important. Doing this is foolish though. Here's why: Any boxer with more, in one of the categories I mentioned above, than his opponent, might win. You simply cannot say in advance, what the deciding factor in a fight will be (which is obviously why a smart trainer tries to make sure his fighter's covered in EVERY department). If boxing was an endurance sport, you could send your fighters running 20 miles everyday, and they'd never lose.


I find it funny, that you're trying to reinvent yourself on this board, as some kind of authority on all things boxing. It was just a short while ago, you were PM'ing me asking for workout plans etc. As a bunch of other people on this site can confirm, I'm usually pretty helpful when people take the time to ask me. You I didn't help, because it didn't feel right. Now I'm glad I didn't.

Same old punchdrunk, always on his high horse. DO me a favour, stop being so petty. I listed Boxing as an endurance sport- because that's what it is. I'm not gonna list all of the aspects of boxing just to please you. It is what it is.

Ok, so when you are referring to fighters "back then" who exactly are you referring too? THe fighters from the 70's I basically believe to be the most skilled I've seen, and the 50's and 60's are pretty close behind. The 90's is when I started to see fighters fall off. Anyways, calling Robinson 'crude' is a huge misinterpretation. I'm not even going to get into th at. YOu are entitled to your opinion, even if it is delusional.

to the above bolded, you are just flat out wrong. Fighters had to fight to survive back then, you're telling me a 15 round fight of sustained damage to the body/brain isn't taxing on the body? C'mon man. Fighters are inactive today because of a number of reasons which I won't get into but the majority of it is because the risk/reward is too high in favour of risk of getting hurt and the rewards financially and personally are much higher. We are in the technology era, like I said, these fighters make monstrous financial gains as opposed to yesteryear and that is a big reason why fighters are inactive. That and they are pretty lazy and protected.

Also, real life simulation in anything is how you get more skilled. How do you get more skilled at anything? You practice. THrough fighting fighting and some more fighting is how you achieve high amoutjns of skill. THat is why Toney who is considered highly skilled doesn't do any bagwork, just sparring.

And for **** sakes, you always hear me preaching on how skill and technique is the most important part of boxing. You can run all the miles in the world, but without some skill you will lose to a guy even with a few months of expereince over you.

Oh and I PMed you about a year and a half ago with advice because I was new to boxing. I have since studied, through class and through experience and I have made my opinions as such. I don't need your help, coming from a Dane...it doesn't mean much. SOrry guy.

[PunchDrunk]

Same old punchdrunk, always on his high horse. DO me a favour, stop being so petty. I listed Boxing as an endurance sport- because that's what it is. I'm not gonna list all of the aspects of boxing just to please you. It is what it is.

Ok, so when you are referring to fighters "back then" who exactly are you referring too? THe fighters from the 70's I basically believe to be the most skilled I've seen, and the 50's and 60's are pretty close behind. The 90's is when I started to see fighters fall off. Anyways, calling Robinson 'crude' is a huge misinterpretation. I'm not even going to get into th at. YOu are entitled to your opinion, even if it is delusional.

to the above bolded, you are just flat out wrong. Fighters had to fight to survive back then, you're telling me a 15 round fight of sustained damage to the body/brain isn't taxing on the body? C'mon man. Fighters are inactive today because of a number of reasons which I won't get into but the majority of it is because the risk/reward is too high in favour of risk of getting hurt and the rewards financially and personally are much higher. We are in the technology era, like I said, these fighters make monstrous financial gains as opposed to yesteryear and that is a big reason why fighters are inactive. That and they are pretty lazy and protected.

Also, real life simulation in anything is how you get more skilled. How do you get more skilled at anything? You practice. THrough fighting fighting and some more fighting is how you achieve high amoutjns of skill. THat is why Toney who is considered highly skilled doesn't do any bagwork, just sparring.

And for **** sakes, you always hear me preaching on how skill and technique is the most important part of boxing. You can run all the miles in the world, but without some skill you will lose to a guy even with a few months of expereince over you.

Oh and I PMed you about a year and a half ago with advice because I was new to boxing. I have since studied, through class and through experience and I have made my opinions as such. I don't need your help, coming from a Dane...it doesn't mean much. SOrry guy.

A year and a half ago?!?! How does time pass in Smokin' world?? You PM'ed me on August 7th 2006!! I'll print a screenshot of your message tomorrow if you really want me to. I guess the fact that you can make an OUTRAGEOUS claim like that shows one of two things:
1. You're a liar.
or
2. You really are delusional.

As for the rest of what you wrote, we can get back to that once you stop lying or kidding yourself, whichever it is.