Who has the best knowledge of power generation on boxing scene?

[billeau2]

Oh little Alex....

How does power transfer from one object to another? Electricity is a great example! You need a ground, something to ground the source and the reciever. You need a proper connection, all the power in the world is for naught if it does not connect in a way where it transfers. You need a proper delivery system, and the reciever has to be able to absorb the power.

There are many ways to punch effectively. But they all have these elements in style little Alex. People often draw the wrong conclusions. If I hit you with a straight punch, no pronation with big gloves on...its not that the punch is bad, but the point where the blow is recieved is nullified when gloves are worn for that type of blow.

the most power can be achieved when you take a step, and let your foot hit at the same instant your hand contacts the target, at that point you tighten and extend fully the arm....that is the gross amount of greatest mass that can be delivered in a blow all things considered.

[Prince Madison]

power and speed?

Give me their names I want to talk to them

bigdramashow

[them_apples]

not bad better to relax the core more snap

to each there own. no real coach will tell you to relax your core when throwing punches, especially on contact. in fact when you hear boxers making a sound when they punch its often to tense the core every time

[AlexKid]

to each there own. no real coach will tell you to relax your core when throwing punches, especially on contact. in fact when you hear boxers making a sound when they punch its often to tense the core every time

Tyson doesn't, Julian Jackson doesn't, its superior for power and peak speed, its tactically open to debate (has down sides for effectiveness )but it definitely is more powerful.

[AlexKid]

Oh little Alex....

How does power transfer from one object to another? Electricity is a great example! You need a ground, something to ground the source and the reciever. You need a proper connection, all the power in the world is for naught if it does not connect in a way where it transfers. You need a proper delivery system, and the reciever has to be able to absorb the power.

There are many ways to punch effectively. But they all have these elements in style little Alex. People often draw the wrong conclusions. If I hit you with a straight punch, no pronation with big gloves on...its not that the punch is bad, but the point where the blow is recieved is nullified when gloves are worn for that type of blow.

the most power can be achieved when you take a step, and let your foot hit at the same instant your hand contacts the target, at that point you tighten and extend fully the arm....that is the gross amount of greatest mass that can be delivered in a blow all things considered.

Before the foot lands or as it lands? I say more power for a punch before the foot lands, if its a throw like in shot putt its better to land the foot AS you throw, however you need to get the foot work right otherwise the foot landing simultaneously will be more powerful.

Yes the delivery of force from the ground is very important like a swimmer pushing off the wall for a head start, if he just pushed against the water much less power. Works in a rotational way and a linear way.

Clearly I am still the boss of this subject and these are mere scraps of info I dont care about like the very basics

[billeau2]

Before the foot lands or as it lands? I say more power for a punch before the foot lands, if its a throw like in shot putt its better to land the foot AS you throw, however you need to get the foot work right otherwise the foot landing simultaneously will be more powerful.

Yes the delivery of force from the ground is very important like a swimmer pushing off the wall for a head start, if he just pushed against the water much less power. Works in a rotational way and a linear way.

Clearly I am still the boss of this subject and these are mere scraps of info I dont care about like the very basics

For MAX the foot hits at the same time as the hand hits the target. If you look at ancient Indian dancing based on the warriorship arts that existed you will see the exxagerated step they take...then you can look at some of their arts, and see the low posture with the step as the hand hits. Low and behold the same appears in China! the same dynamic, foot lands while hand hits target. Then you have mr Jack Dempsey who advocates the same dynamics with power punching... So what is going on here?

Well think of the potential energy of your step like a spark plug, (Juggies metaphor!) The greatest energy realized is the least energy lost...from the split second your foot hits to the hand landing on target. Every split second you are off you lose more potential energy gained in the step. A spark plug has a point where the spark delivers maximum combustion... thats part of why we need our timing checked yes?

To be clear there is nothing wrong with punching in different ways to generate power but the most power is what we are talking about here. And obviously if I am fighting Andrey Ward if I step around he can avoid me pretty easily but when we first learn to hit to generate power its important to know this truth about power.

Dempsey used to laugh about the incomprable Joe Gans. He would say with Joe you could hear his foot slapping as he came in for his power punches, a loud crack like an explosion. I can also say from personal experience that if power comes from utilizing your center...then the timing of when the center moves, recentering and impact takes skill to be efficient. Every bit a person is off on the timing, power is lost. Just like in most energy transfers. If I put a current through a wire that is too small it burns up, if I use a wire too big, the energy dissopates in the transfer and less gets to the source.

Does this make sense little Alex?

[billeau2]

to each there own. no real coach will tell you to relax your core when throwing punches, especially on contact. in fact when you hear boxers making a sound when they punch its often to tense the core every time

Interesting point of departure you and little Alex have come upon. I think both of you are closer to the other than you may realize. The answer to this question first and foremost involves deciding what the actual core is. Boxing as a western combative tends to emphasize musclarity at the expense of bones and connective tissues. The chinese by comparison are the opposite and emphasize core alignment at the expense of muscle development.

As a martial arts teacher I hope my opinion can be a help here: If we define two cores we get: the spine and hips and the muscles which drive the turning movement of them. Eventually the shoulders as well, and the muscles in the core that turn and make the shoulders go up and down... thats core #1 Core number two is the muscles padding core #1 core #2 specifically are the obliques, abdominal muscles and the muscles that overlay core number one...Core #2 is not the delts, the traps, the chest... because these muscles are supplementary.

When we punch we are a maypole so to speak. The spine, shoulders and hips should be fluid until the last second and the muscles surrounding these (core #2) tense when a blow is delivered, also at the last instance. Most of the tension is natural and if we learn to breathe properly will work on its own...But as one gets better the more control one has with the use of the muscles to make the blows more powerful.

Finally, how much we need to tense to get maximum power is complicated...

So yeah a coach would not ask one to relax the core but, there are muscles in the core area which one has to train to relax to develop explosive power. Both of you have a point and are right about a respective core....its just that there are two cores to speak of.

[juggernaut666]

Oh little Alex....

How does power transfer from one object to another? Electricity is a great example! You need a ground, something to ground the source and the reciever. You need a proper connection, all the power in the world is for naught if it does not connect in a way where it transfers. You need a proper delivery system, and the reciever has to be able to absorb the power.

There are many ways to punch effectively. But they all have these elements in style little Alex. People often draw the wrong conclusions. If I hit you with a straight punch, no pronation with big gloves on...its not that the punch is bad, but the point where the blow is recieved is nullified when gloves are worn for that type of blow.

the most power can be achieved when you take a step, and let your foot hit at the same instant your hand contacts the target, at that point you tighten and extend fully the arm....that is the gross amount of greatest mass that can be delivered in a blow all things considered.

I used that foot/floor ...hit simultaneous technique in my vid on here it works ,SOME punches i couldn't plant down on in southpaw stance but fools just didnt know what they were looking at its up AGAIN as some IDIOT thought it would bother me in the nsb section .....check it out its just a few power shots after a full work out .

[AlexKid]

For MAX the foot hits at the same time as the hand hits the target. If you look at ancient Indian dancing based on the warriorship arts that existed you will see the exxagerated step they take...then you can look at some of their arts, and see the low posture with the step as the hand hits. Low and behold the same appears in China! the same dynamic, foot lands while hand hits target. Then you have mr Jack Dempsey who advocates the same dynamics with power punching... So what is going on here?

Well think of the potential energy of your step like a spark plug, (Juggies metaphor!) The greatest energy realized is the least energy lost...from the split second your foot hits to the hand landing on target. Every split second you are off you lose more potential energy gained in the step. A spark plug has a point where the spark delivers maximum combustion... thats part of why we need our timing checked yes?

To be clear there is nothing wrong with punching in different ways to generate power but the most power is what we are talking about here. And obviously if I am fighting Andrey Ward if I step around he can avoid me pretty easily but when we first learn to hit to generate power its important to know this truth about power.

Dempsey used to laugh about the incomprable Joe Gans. He would say with Joe you could hear his foot slapping as he came in for his power punches, a loud crack like an explosion. I can also say from personal experience that if power comes from utilizing your center...then the timing of when the center moves, recentering and impact takes skill to be efficient. Every bit a person is off on the timing, power is lost. Just like in most energy transfers. If I put a current through a wire that is too small it burns up, if I use a wire too big, the energy dissopates in the transfer and less gets to the source.

Does this make sense little Alex?

Wrong again it hits harder AFTER but JUST after.

Alex Kid wins again. My knowledge is still superior. I am the big boss you are the little girl

Go try it, AS your fist connects and JUST after

Just after is better. You are wrong.

When its done at the same time you still loose weight and momentum into the ground!



Before = most weight lost into ground = fast but light = rubbish

As = some weight is lost into the ground = not optimal

Just after = Best (max weight and speed combined Alex Kid is Boss)

Too late after = full weight but lacks acceleration at end, bit pushy = not optimal

[AlexKid]

Interesting point of departure you and little Alex have come upon. I think both of you are closer to the other than you may realize. The answer to this question first and foremost involves deciding what the actual core is. Boxing as a western combative tends to emphasize musclarity at the expense of bones and connective tissues. The chinese by comparison are the opposite and emphasize core alignment at the expense of muscle development.

As a martial arts teacher I hope my opinion can be a help here: If we define two cores we get: the spine and hips and the muscles which drive the turning movement of them. Eventually the shoulders as well, and the muscles in the core that turn and make the shoulders go up and down... thats core #1 Core number two is the muscles padding core #1 core #2 specifically are the obliques, abdominal muscles and the muscles that overlay core number one...Core #2 is not the delts, the traps, the chest... because these muscles are supplementary.

When we punch we are a maypole so to speak. The spine, shoulders and hips should be fluid until the last second and the muscles surrounding these (core #2) tense when a blow is delivered, also at the last instance. Most of the tension is natural and if we learn to breathe properly will work on its own...But as one gets better the more control one has with the use of the muscles to make the blows more powerful.

Finally, how much we need to tense to get maximum power is complicated...

So yeah a coach would not ask one to relax the core but, there are muscles in the core area which one has to train to relax to develop explosive power. Both of you have a point and are right about a respective core....its just that there are two cores to speak of.

Again your knowledge of martial arts is shhity at best, you get more power if you relax at impact