Weight lifting and boxing?

[Spartacus Sully]

Jesus Christ. He went to Ross boxing.

hes got an entire web site, what do you have? a few letters you can brag about that in no way is boxing specific and you have no proof of?

[HedonisticFrog]

essentially this says that fast twitch activate under heavy loads like pushing and slow twitch activate under light loads like punching.

Well there's your problem, you shouldn't be trying to gently caress your opponents. If you only used slow twitch muscle fibers for punching you would have slow ass punches.

Strength is strongly correlated to sprint speed and jump height in soccer players. Stronger muscles let you move faster, what a concept.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/3/285.full

[Spartacus Sully]

Well there's your problem, you shouldn't be trying to gently caress your opponents. If you only used slow twitch muscle fibers for punching you would have slow ass punches.

Strength is strongly correlated to sprint speed and jump height in soccer players. Stronger muscles let you move faster, what a concept.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/3/285.full

that's great for soccer players.

slow twitch and fast twitch are a matter of contraction speed, slow twitch contracts at .075 seconds fast twitch at .025. this is not a matter of how fast your arm can move but a matter of how many times you can flex and unflex one specific muscle.

that is to say, if you throw a jab it is going to take you .075 seconds to flex, about .1 second to travel out .075 seconds to flex it back in and .1 second to travel back.

or it will take you about .35 seconds to throw a jab and return it.

I believe Ali's jab was .33 seconds

this has absolutely nothing to do with the speed your fist is moving when you hit the person.




fast twitch play a great advantage in sprinting, at .075 seconds for slow twitch, the number of times you can move your legs per second is going to limit you at around 9 mphs, fast twitch can contract 3 times in the same time it takes slow twitch to contract once, giving you a top speed of around 27 mphs.

but sprinting isn't boxing.

and as show by the chart in the link you provided:



there is a much greater correlation between maximal strength and sprinting, than shulttle run or jumping.

[HedonisticFrog]

that's great for soccer players.

slow twitch and fast twitch are a matter of contraction speed, slow twitch contracts at .075 seconds fast twitch at .025. this is not a matter of how fast your arm can move but a matter of how many times you can flex and unflex one specific muscle.

that is to say, if you throw a jab it is going to take you .075 seconds to flex, about .1 second to travel out .075 seconds to flex it back in and .1 second to travel back.

or it will take you about .35 seconds to throw a jab and return it.

I believe Ali's jab was .33 seconds

this has absolutely nothing to do with the speed your fist is moving when you hit the person.




fast twitch play a great advantage in sprinting, at .075 seconds for slow twitch, the number of times you can move your legs per second is going to limit you at around 9 mphs, fast twitch can contract 3 times in the same time it takes slow twitch to contract once, giving you a top speed of around 27 mphs.

but sprinting isn't boxing.

and as show by the chart in the link you provided:



there is a much greater correlation between maximal strength and sprinting, than shulttle run or jumping.

Sprinting is much more than just how fast you can initiate contractions. The strong soccer players were able to run faster because they could push against the ground with more force more often. Neither of those are limited by how fast you can activate muscles. You really need to stop focusing on the nervous system so much.

Also there's still a strong positive correlation between strength and shuttle run and jumping, so what's your point? Do you think that jumping is benefited by being able to contract your muscle fibers more often as well? That would be almost as funny as some of the other stuff you've said.

You really need to stop changing the subject by the way. This is getting old. I show that strength increases force production and you say that it doesn't help hand speed. But since i happen to have evidence that strength does benefit hand speed lets kill two birds with one stone. The exact conclusion is that strength is correlated with increased punch acceleration in all conditions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24276310

[Spartacus Sully]

Sprinting is much more than just how fast you can initiate contractions. The strong soccer players were able to run faster because they could push against the ground with more force more often. Neither of those are limited by how fast you can activate muscles. You really need to stop focusing on the nervous system so much.

Also there's still a strong positive correlation between strength and shuttle run and jumping, so what's your point? Do you think that jumping is benefited by being able to contract your muscle fibers more often as well? That would be almost as funny as some of the other stuff you've said.

You really need to stop changing the subject by the way. This is getting old. I show that strength increases force production and you say that it doesn't help hand speed. But since i happen to have evidence that strength does benefit hand speed lets kill two birds with one stone. The exact conclusion is that strength is correlated with increased punch acceleration in all conditions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24276310

there is no inherient limitation between fast and slow twitch muscles that prevent you from outputting the same power in the same single step.

rather the limitation is that fast twitch muscles can take the same step 3 times in the time it takes slow twitch muscles to take one step.

"Predicting punching acceleration" you do understand the difference between velocity and acceleration right?

if your max hand speed is 10 mphs, it dosnt matter if you can accelerate to 10 mph faster than any other human being.

seems like it would be an interesting article to read, unfortunately I have no interest in buying it.

[HedonisticFrog]

there is no inherient limitation between fast and slow twitch muscles that prevent you from outputting the same power in the same single step.

rather the limitation is that fast twitch muscles can take the same step 3 times in the time it takes slow twitch muscles to take one step.

"Predicting punching acceleration" you do understand the difference between velocity and acceleration right?

seems like it would be an interesting article to read, unfortunately I have no interest in buying it.

There is a clear limitation to slow twitch muscle fibers in producing the same force in each step. They can't produce nearly as much force as fast twitch muscle fibers.

You're just making random assumptions now. Maybe you should find some evidence that supports your case instead of just assuming that the foot speed was the only thing that changed.

If acceleration is increased then the velocity over the course of the punch is increased as well. It's pretty simple to understand the correlation between the two.

[Wuckoo]

I swear this happens whenever someone makes a thread about weight lifting and boxing.

[Spartacus Sully]

There is a clear limitation to slow twitch muscle fibers in producing the same force in each step. They can't produce nearly as much force as fast twitch muscle fibers.

You're just making random assumptions now. Maybe you should find some evidence that supports your case instead of just assuming that the foot speed was the only thing that changed.

If acceleration is increased then the velocity over the course of the punch is increased as well. It's pretty simple to understand the correlation between the two.

the force a single muscle fiber produces is based on its myosin, there are 18 different kinds of myosin isomers and they are not necessiarly exclusive to one specific type of motor unit.

muscle fibers are grouped into motor units each responding to a single motor neuron.

fast twitch motor neurons are much larger and have many times more muscle fibers in one motor unit.

so lets hypothetically say one fast twitch motor unit has 75 muscle fibers in it, that motor unit fires off, and all 75 muscle fibers twitch.

lets say hypothetically in comparison one slow twitch moto unit only has 10 muscle fibers in it.

so one slow twitch neuron fires off 10 fibers and one fast twitch neuron fires off 75 muscle fibers. thus we can conclude that one slow twitch motor unit puts out nearly 7 times less power than 1 fast twitch motor unit.

mean while 8 slow twitch motor units activating at the same time would have more muscle fibers and there fore create more force.

the difficulty is in training 8 motor units to fire off at once compared to only needing to train one to fire off.


there is no inherent limitation that prevents slow twitch from outputting the same force as fast twitch with in a single movement.

[johnm is...]

Edit.

On second thought. I really don't have anything to prove to you, Sully.

Keep visiting Ross' website, lol. Because it's not possible that I could have a website. Or that I could possibly be a strength and conditioning coach for local boxers and MMA fighters.

I don't wanna let my real world experiences interfere with your contradicting google method.

Keep posting those charts, big guy. Knock yourself out (with slow twitch muscle fibers, even, if it makes ya feel good).

[Spartacus Sully]

Edit.

On second thought. I really don't have anything to prove to you, Sully.

Keep visiting Ross' website, lol. Because it's not possible that I could have a website. Or that I could possibly be a strength and conditioning coach for local boxers and MMA fighters.

I don't wanna let my real world experiences interfere with your contradicting google method.

Keep posting those charts, big guy. Knock yourself out (with slow twitch muscle fibers, even, if it makes ya feel good).

I can do anything when i lie.

whbat ever you do, your clearly not open minded or educated enough to do it as well as you could be.


and no, i wouldnt be surprised if the post i made on page 2 was correct:

The biggest problem with trying to train a boxing/mma fighter

I find the biggest problem is coaches in MMA gyms trying to turn their boxers into MMA fighters.

essentially what your saying is, "even if you are right, it goes against what i do for a living, so id never admit it"