Weight lifting and boxing?

[Banderivets]

with eccentric training you can force Hyperplasia where the muscle fiber tears and instead of regrowing larger each half joins up with a muscle stem cell to become 2 new muscles fibers.

also, id imagine in the regrowth process the myosin isomer can change and become more effective.

Sure I agree, but as Facade pointed out, limbs seem to have a lot to do with it as well.

So it's a mater of muscle fiber, weight, CNS, and limbs and possibly even just the genetic shape of the muscle. With all of the factors being crucial in one's leaping ability but with any one variable rendering the rest possibly useless when it comes to jumping. As in, a man with immensely strong but short legs.

[Jim Jeffries]

Nineteen eighty-six found Ben bench pressing 3 x 3 x 365 and bench squatting 2 x 6 x 550.

http://www.fitflex.com/ben-johnson-training.html

That's bench pressing over twice his body weight, 3 sets of 3 reps. The next year he broke the world record in the 100m. Imagine how much quicker he would've been if he hadn't "wasted" all that time and energy working his "unloaded" upper body.

[Spartacus Sully]

Nineteen eighty-six found Ben bench pressing 3 x 3 x 365 and bench squatting 2 x 6 x 550.

http://www.fitflex.com/ben-johnson-training.html

That's bench pressing over twice his body weight, 3 sets of 3 reps. The next year he broke the world record in the 100m. Imagine how much quicker he would've been if he hadn't "wasted" all that time and energy working his "unloaded" upper body.

do you think world class track stars can kick faster than bruce lee?

[Jim Jeffries]

do you think world class track stars can kick faster than bruce lee?

Let's stick to punching Dr. Hummingbird and stay away from actors while we're at it. I'd rather get punched by Bruce Luce than Ben Johnson. I also think there's more to punching power than the velocity of the punch and the mass of the person throwing it. Which is why Foreman hit harder than Ali and Aaron Pryor hit harder than Hector Camacho, among numerous other examples.

You still haven't explained how we're supposed to fully extend our punches before impact, sensei. I am your student.

[Spartacus Sully]

Let's stick to punching Dr. Hummingbird and stay away from actors while we're at it. I'd rather get punched by Bruce Luce than Ben Johnson. I also think there's more to punching power than the velocity of the punch and the mass of the person throwing it. Which is why Foreman hit harder than Ali and Aaron Pryor hit harder than Hector Camacho, among numerous other examples.

You still haven't explained how we're supposed to fully extend our punches before impact, sensei. I am your student.

the thread title is weight lifting and boxing, not weight lifting and sprinting.

if you have proper distance for a punch you cant punch through, maybe a couple inches in, but not through. You really want full extension of the punch before impact.

poor wording, rather you want full extension at impact, my bad.

[Jim Jeffries]

the thread title is weight lifting and boxing, not weight lifting and sprinting.

Yes of course, but then someone said this

strength training is a waste of time if your goal is boxing

and then rambled on about hummingbirds and how fast twitch muscle fibers are no better for speed than slow twitch. Worse when it comes to boxing actually, because he says you can't activate fast twitch fibers without load. That your muscles should never be under load when boxing because you should never follow through with your punches. Or aim behind your target, as it were. All because of hummingbirds, which may or may not have almost exclusively slow twitch fibers in their breasts and um, 10th grade physics.

Now I'm not killing a hummingbird to find out, but I know for a fact that quail have white meat breasts like turkeys. They also have phenomenal wing speed and explosive takeoffs. Turkeys have pretty powerful muscles as well to get a 20 or 30 lb bird airborne in a hurry. What they both lack is endurance, as you'd expect from lower levels of myoglobin, less mitochondria and lesser local capillary density.

poor wording, rather you want full extension at impact, my bad.

Better, but still wrong. If you only ever try for full extension at impact, you're going to be missing a moving target an awful lot.

[Spartacus Sully]

Yes of course, but then someone said this



and then rambled on about hummingbirds and how fast twitch muscle fibers are no better for speed than slow twitch. Worse when it comes to boxing actually, because he says you can't activate fast twitch fibers without load. That your muscles should never be under load when boxing because you should never follow through with your punches. Or aim behind your target, as it were. All because of hummingbirds, which may or may not have almost exclusively slow twitch fibers in their breasts and um, 10th grade physics.

Now I'm not killing a hummingbird to find out, but I know for a fact that quail have white meat breasts like turkeys. They also have phenomenal wing speed and explosive takeoffs. Turkeys have pretty powerful muscles as well to get a 20 or 30 lb bird airborne in a hurry. What they both lack is endurance, as you'd expect from lower levels of myoglobin, less mitochondria and lesser local capillary density.



Better, but still wrong. If you only ever try for full extension at impact, you're going to be missing a moving target an awful lot.

strenth training is useless if we define it as heavy weight low reps done explosively.

plyo metrics and body weight exercises are better.

get an axe, go out to the woods, chop down a tree, section it into pieces.

much better than 3 sets of 5 reps at 85% 1 rep max


Proper distance is very important, you don't want to punch through.

[HedonisticFrog]

strenth training is useless if we define it as heavy weight low reps done explosively.

plyo metrics and body weight exercises are better.

get an axe, go out to the woods, chop down a tree, section it into pieces.

much better than 3 sets of 5 reps at 85% 1 rep max


Proper distance is very important, you don't want to punch through.

Strength training doesn't even need to be explosive to be beneficial. I've already demonstrated that strength is correlated to punch acceleration, vertical jump height, sprint speed, and shuttle run speed. If you want to claim that strength training isn't beneficial at least show some hard evidence like I've shown you.

Bodyweight exercises are better based on what?

If you want to train like they did 50 years ago feel free but don't drag other people down with you.

Punching through the target is exactly what you should be trying to do or else you don't transfer all of your momentum into the target. If your punch stops once it makes contact there's no power behind it.

[Spartacus Sully]

if your reading this thread and have been disappointing by the results of heavy lifting, i recommend you try plyometrics and body weight exercises to tax the glycogen stores.

if you like where you are at lifting heavy, keep doing it.

[Jim Jeffries]

strenth training is useless if we define it as heavy weight low reps done explosively.

You seem to be missing an IMO in this statement.

plyo metrics and body weight exercises are better.

Better than useless? That's not really saying much. I like plyos for my legs because I prefer free weights and don't like the unnecessary stress that comes from squatting and deadlifting heavy weight. Upper body I like a mixture of heavy weight, low reps combined with isometrics for strength, higher reps, low to medium weight for endurance.

get an axe, go out to the woods, chop down a tree, section it into pieces.

much better than 3 sets of 5 reps at 85% 1 rep max

Better for what? Building the sort of explosive strength that you say is useless in boxing?

Proper distance is very important, you don't want to punch through.

IMO full extension on every punch leads to excessive stress on your elbows. It is also important to practice the sort of short and medium distance punches that will present themselves in an actual boxing match. Not following through even a millimeter is one of the more ridiculous pieces of advice I've ever read on a boxing forum.