weight training for strength NOT bulk

[Jack3d]

Brookland Bomber stated that a person NEEDS size to gain strength, which is simply not true.

My bad then. But gaining weight and or putting on size can help with strength. Especially pressing strength. At least from my experience

[BrooklynBomber]

I am yet to see a 105, yet even 150 pound person that can press or clean 400-500 pounds. Olympic sports not withstanding, no one actually can..


Bodybuilders are strong as hell, however they are not relevant to the topic since it's the powerlifters that usually beat all the records of strength. And these guys are big. I also stated that you do need mass to lift mass, but only after a certain point. Most certainly you need to be big to be really strong, you can stay flirting with 140 pounds of bodyweight your whole life, but that won't get you very far strength wise. Up to a certain point, but not after it.
What I do stand by is that in order to be strong you gotta move big.

[josh-hill]

That would mean absolutely inhuman explosive strength. That would transfer a lot into a boxing ring.

wrong. it would mean huge maximal strength. if you then did some training to increase explosive strength then it would mean you would your punches would be much stronger. but you need to work on explosive strength separately. i presume with polymetrics.

also you are right about the rep ranges. [quote]
1-5 Reps- Strength
6-12 Reps- Hypertrophy
12-15+ - Endurance [quote]

if anyone is interested its because your body tries to use as little muscle as possible, starting with slow twitch fibers. incidental fast twitch fibers are the ones that grow in size most. at a low weight , i.e. you can do 15 reps your body only needs to use the slow twitch muscles so only they get trained. at heavy weights your body needs to recruit fast twitch fibers too to be able to lift it. this meens more fibers get used and more get stronger. im not sure why medium reps encourages growth though. if anyone could point me towards some info i would be grateful as i am trying to do a lot of research into this.

[SBleeder]

I am yet to see a 105, yet even 150 pound person that can press or clean 400-500 pounds. Olympic sports not withstanding, no one actually can..


Bodybuilders are strong as hell, however they are not relevant to the topic since it's the powerlifters that usually beat all the records of strength. And these guys are big. I also stated that you do need mass to lift mass, but only after a certain point. Most certainly you need to be big to be really strong, you can stay flirting with 140 pounds of bodyweight your whole life, but that won't get you very far strength wise. Up to a certain point, but not after it.
What I do stand by is that in order to be strong you gotta move big.

Sorry, but you're wrong. The fact that 105 pound weightlifters and powerlifters can move more weight than an average 250 pound man is evidence enough that muscle mass is not required for strength.

[BrooklynBomber]

[QUOTE=josh-hill;9350013]wrong. it would mean huge maximal strength. if you then did some training to increase explosive strength then it would mean you would your punches would be much stronger. but you need to work on explosive strength separately. i presume with polymetrics.

also you are right about the rep ranges. [quote]
1-5 Reps- Strength
6-12 Reps- Hypertrophy
12-15+ - Endurance

if anyone is interested its because your body tries to use as little muscle as possible, starting with slow twitch fibers. incidental slow twitch fibers are the ones that grow in size most. at a low weight , i.e. you can do 15 reps your body only needs to use the slow twitch muscles so only they get trained. at heavy weights your body needs to recruit fast twitch fibers too to be able to lift it. this meens more fibers get used and more get stronger. im not sure why medium reps encourages growth though. if anyone could point me towards some info i would be grateful as i am trying to do a lot of research into this.

No, you got it all wrong. In order for your body to execute movement at most explosive rate it will have to use the most motor units. That can be achieved by training your maximum mascular strength. Thats why olympic weight lifters are some of the most explosive athletes in the world, and so are the powerlifters. They work on their maximum strength, which in turn trains body to activate the highest number of motor units in high-treshold fast twitch muscles.

And you completely got it wrong when referring to slow twitch fibers growing the most in size, they simply cant do such thing, It is the fast twitch activators that grow the most. You can simple compare marathon runners to sprint runners to see which one of them grew more.

[BrooklynBomber]

Sorry, but you're wrong. The fact that 105 pound weightlifters and powerlifters can move more weight than an average 250 pound man is evidence enough that muscle mass is not required for strength.

Well, good luck getting there. But I doubt you actually are set on getting anywhere.

PS> there is no 105 pound devision in any form of weight lifting, maybe some sort of baby exercises are what you keep in mind.

[josh-hill]

That would mean absolutely inhuman explosive strength. That would transfer a lot into a boxing ring.

[QUOTE=BrooklynBomber;9350158][QUOTE=josh-hill;9350013]wrong. it would mean huge maximal strength. if you then did some training to increase explosive strength then it would mean you would your punches would be much stronger. but you need to work on explosive strength separately. i presume with polymetrics.

also you are right about the rep ranges.

1-5 Reps- Strength
6-12 Reps- Hypertrophy
12-15+ - Endurance

No, you got it all wrong. In order for your body to execute movement at most explosive rate it will have to use the most motor units. That can be achieved by training your maximum mascular strength. Thats why olympic weight lifters are some of the most explosive athletes in the world, and so are the powerlifters. They work on their maximum strength, which in turn trains body to activate the highest number of motor units in high-treshold fast twitch muscles.

And you completely got it wrong when referring to slow twitch fibers growing the most in size, they simply cant do such thing, It is the fast twitch activators that grow the most. You can simple compare marathon runners to sprint runners to see which one of them grew more.

i said that fast twitch muscles grow the most didnt i? i meant to anyway. that was the point of my argument. that you need to use high weights to target these fast twitch fibers as they are the ones that grow. im looking into this as much as i can so can you link me to any evidence. i understand that by going heavy you can encourage your body to use more fibers by getting it used to using fast twitch fibers. while this makes them work together i dont think it makes them faster than they already where, just creates that efffect as they are working together. so this will work up to a certain extent but after you need to specificaly target them in a way to train them to work faster. im going by ross at ross training for most of this stuff.

edit: you where right. i did say slow. but it is in fact fast twitch muscles that grow more. its getting late lol. i should get some sleep

[paulsinghnl]

i am not a fan of weights, except the ones with shadowboxing like the guy said before. i think i'll do weights when i can do like handstand or 1-handed pushups, one handed pullups, hurdle jumps that are half my height, see where i'm going with this?

i dont think weight training is at all necessary if you can still push your body to its' limits with regular plyo's etc. it's more functional anyway, when you do

our trainer had us doing pushups on basketballs (not good for the balls by the way) that was tough as hell, the balls are way too light to hold in control.

[SBleeder]

Well, good luck getting there. But I doubt you actually are set on getting anywhere.

PS> there is no 105 pound devision in any form of weight lifting, maybe some sort of baby exercises are what you keep in mind.

OK, fine. The lowest weight class for Weightlifting is 123 pounds. That's still pretty light compared to your average muscle-head, and yet those tiny men can outlift you or me easily.

As far as what I'm doing, it is my goal to shed quite a bit of muscle.

[josh-hill]

i am not a fan of weights, except the ones with shadowboxing like the guy said before. i think i'll do weights when i can do like handstand or 1-handed pushups, one handed pullups, hurdle jumps that are half my height, see where i'm going with this?

i dont think weight training is at all necessary if you can still push your body to its' limits with regular plyo's etc. it's more functional anyway, when you do

our trainer had us doing pushups on basketballs (not good for the balls by the way) that was tough as hell, the balls are way too light to hold in control.

i understand what you are ssaying and you are probably right. there is no NEED to weight lift. doing BW exercises is enough for most people. but when you think about it there is verry little difference between the two. apart from the equipment. i think Ross Enamait said they are both tools to the same goal along with other things such as resistance bands and whatever.

personaly i want to lift weights because i am at a low amout of muscle and am verry weak. and it seems like the fastest way to get up in weight / strength. when i get to a decent strength i will start focusing on endurance and explosiveness