muhhammad ali is overrated!!

[Yogi]

foreman looked like a fool for that entire fight.

Speaking of "overrated"...

[hollister]

I think Ali is overrated by some, as is Foreman. The difference is that nobody ever said that Foreman was the greatest of all time, just that he hit really hard. Foreman bought into his own hype and punched himself out, otherwise he may well have won that fight. Hell, Norton gave Ali all he could handle and even the wins that Ali got against him were questionable. Chuvalo fought two close fights in which Ali was allowed to hold him behind the head every time he got close, even though Ali got the nod. It's like the old saying, if you say something enough times, somebody will believe it, and many did.

[Mr. Ryan]

The idea that Ali is overrated is preposterous, Ali lived up to every expectation, even exceeded it on many levels. Ali was thought to stand no chance against Liston the first time around, people thought he'd be out of there in the first. Instead, Clay laid a severe pounding on him, beat him every step of the way and made him quit after 6. Jerry Izenberg of the Star Ledger said that "Liston couldn't hit Clay in the ass with a canoe paddle", and Liston was no slouch.

Liston would have destroyed Tyson, Liston was much stronger and quicker.

Ali repeated the effort in the rematch, he caught Liston with a crisp right hand that made Liston think the better of going through with the formality of a prolonged beating.

Then Ali went back and punished the first repeat heavyweight champion Patterson, utterly humiliated a gifted fighter for 12 one-sided rounds.

Ali lost 3 years of his prime, as well as his timing and stamina, to the service that he begrudgingly refused to sacrifice himself to. He fought one of the greatest fights of all time in the first Frazier fight against an incredible opponent while unprepared and lost a 15 round decision walking through brimfire. He then went to Zaire against a fearsome puncher and undefeated champ Foreman, outfoxed a younger, stronger man en route to a 8 Rd KO.

He was the first to win the title three times, just an incredible fighter. To think he was featherfisted is insane, Liston said after the first fight in the dressing room "Who the **** was that?" He didn't think Clay could punch, and was shocked at the force he was getting hit with. Ali beats EVERY heavyweight who ever lived, especially Joe Louis. Louis was painfully slow, I have no idea how Louis would find him. Louis said that Ali would be easier than Johnny Paycheck and Buddy Bear, hmm, I bet that's what Liston thought before the first fight. Look what happened to him.

[-Antonio-]

Hes only overrated as the greatest boxer of all time. People fail to realize that he kept his hands down, and he really only threw two punches, the jab followed by the straight right. He was just so athletic and talented that he could dance and jab and move away from counters in time. He knew he wouldnt be able to do this against Foreman so he switched up his plan. His gameplan for that fight in my opinion is UNDERRATED. He took all of those punches just hoping that he would eventually tire Foreman. I remember Mancini saying in one Ringside special on ESPN Classic that just the fact that ALI took all of those shots to the arms and kept them up is unbelievable.

His competition alone should put him in the top 20 fighters of all time. He beat so many great fighters, including two who were supposed to be unbeatable in Liston and Foreman. I agree with someone who pointed out that Holmes would have given Ali a tough fight, maybe beating him. It would have been nice to see that fight prime against prime.

[Azteca]

Louis was painfully slow, I have no idea how Louis would find him.

what the **** are you talking about?

[Mr. Ryan]

what the **** are you talking about?

*******, watch the fight when he destroyed Schmelling, he baby steps, paws with the left, and then slams a right hand to drop him after standing still and not moving his head for about 5 seconds. To be beaten by Louis, you had to be right in front of him. I remember in AKA Cassius Clay, a movie Ali did with Cus D'Amato, they played some tape and theorized about how a hypothetical matchup would look. If you honestly thought Louis was on his toes bouncing around and using proper lateral movement, you're out of your mind.

[BuddyChacon]

The idea that Ali is overrated is preposterous, Ali lived up to every expectation, even exceeded it on many levels. Ali was thought to stand no chance against Liston the first time around, people thought he'd be out of there in the first. Instead, Clay laid a severe pounding on him, beat him every step of the way and made him quit after 6. Jerry Izenberg of the Star Ledger said that "Liston couldn't hit Clay in the ass with a canoe paddle", and Liston was no slouch.

Liston would have destroyed Tyson, Liston was much stronger and quicker.

Ali repeated the effort in the rematch, he caught Liston with a crisp right hand that made Liston think the better of going through with the formality of a prolonged beating.

Then Ali went back and punished the first repeat heavyweight champion Patterson, utterly humiliated a gifted fighter for 12 one-sided rounds.

Ali lost 3 years of his prime, as well as his timing and stamina, to the service that he begrudgingly refused to sacrifice himself to. He fought one of the greatest fights of all time in the first Frazier fight against an incredible opponent while unprepared and lost a 15 round decision walking through brimfire. He then went to Zaire against a fearsome puncher and undefeated champ Foreman, outfoxed a younger, stronger man en route to a 8 Rd KO.

He was the first to win the title three times, just an incredible fighter. To think he was featherfisted is insane, Liston said after the first fight in the dressing room "Who the **** was that?" He didn't think Clay could punch, and was shocked at the force he was getting hit with. Ali beats EVERY heavyweight who ever lived, especially Joe Louis. Louis was painfully slow, I have no idea how Louis would find him. Louis said that Ali would be easier than Johnny Paycheck and Buddy Bear, hmm, I bet that's what Liston thought before the first fight. Look what happened to him.

I agree with everything you said, except that Louis was painfully slow. I don't see it. I don't think Ali is Overrated, he proved his greatness in the toughfest era in Heavyweight history. Jerry Quarry was better than the majority of guys Louis defended against.

[Mr. Ryan]

I agree with everything you said, except that Louis was painfully slow. I don't see it. I don't think Ali is Overrated, he proved his greatness in the toughfest era in Heavyweight history. Jerry Quarry was better than the majority of guys Louis defended against.

Louis' duties as a morale booster in the Army allowed him to fight guys like Buddy Bear and Johnny PayCheck, that was his gig.

[hollister]

The idea that Ali is overrated is preposterous, Ali lived up to every expectation, even exceeded it on many levels. Ali was thought to stand no chance against Liston the first time around, people thought he'd be out of there in the first. Instead, Clay laid a severe pounding on him, beat him every step of the way and made him quit after 6. Jerry Izenberg of the Star Ledger said that "Liston couldn't hit Clay in the ass with a canoe paddle", and Liston was no slouch.

Liston would have destroyed Tyson, Liston was much stronger and quicker.

Ali repeated the effort in the rematch, he caught Liston with a crisp right hand that made Liston think the better of going through with the formality of a prolonged beating.

Then Ali went back and punished the first repeat heavyweight champion Patterson, utterly humiliated a gifted fighter for 12 one-sided rounds.

Ali lost 3 years of his prime, as well as his timing and stamina, to the service that he begrudgingly refused to sacrifice himself to. He fought one of the greatest fights of all time in the first Frazier fight against an incredible opponent while unprepared and lost a 15 round decision walking through brimfire. He then went to Zaire against a fearsome puncher and undefeated champ Foreman, outfoxed a younger, stronger man en route to a 8 Rd KO.

He was the first to win the title three times, just an incredible fighter. To think he was featherfisted is insane, Liston said after the first fight in the dressing room "Who the **** was that?" He didn't think Clay could punch, and was shocked at the force he was getting hit with. Ali beats EVERY heavyweight who ever lived, especially Joe Louis. Louis was painfully slow, I have no idea how Louis would find him. Louis said that Ali would be easier than Johnny Paycheck and Buddy Bear, hmm, I bet that's what Liston thought before the first fight. Look what happened to him.

Yeah but against Liston he was just a young kid and everyone slept on him because he hadn't fought anyone, and Liston, even though his fearsome image was still intact, was already past it. They said they had to pay sparring partners to make him look good. Louis would definitely have trouble with the Ali that fought Liston, but he would destroy the one that fought Foreman. Louis was slow on his feet, but his hands were very fast and he loved the jab and almost always punched in combinations when he got close to his man. He not only couldn't hurt Norton who got KO'd by evey decent puncher he ever faced, but he couldn't outbox him either and had his jaw broken in their first fight. He was a great fighter but the greatest of all time is stretching it IMO.

[Azteca]

*******, watch the fight when he destroyed Schmelling, he baby steps, paws with the left, and then slams a right hand to drop him after standing still and not moving his head for about 5 seconds. To be beaten by Louis, you had to be right in front of him. I remember in AKA Cassius Clay, a movie Ali did with Cus D'Amato, they played some tape and theorized about how a hypothetical matchup would look. If you honestly thought Louis was on his toes bouncing around and using proper lateral movement, you're out of your mind.

funny you say that, but you forget that louis was a stalker. bouncing on his toes and using lateral movement did not suit his style. i do take your point about joe louis having slow footspeed, though.

then again, if you knew anything about the history of african american's in sports you would know that an african american athlete always had to produce knockouts, because they would always lose on the cards to a 'great white hope'. it was until louis - schmeling 1 (when louis got knocked out) when america started to really rally around joe louis.