Only in Germany..........!!

[Novirasputin]

Miranda's trainer would have never let him continue in that situation. For God's sake I didn't think any human would put someone's life at risk against Doctor's orders with that severe of an injury.

Abraham says he is happy now, but let's see what happens if he never fights again. This very well could be a career ending injury. If it had ended in the 5th, he would have most likely rebounded quickly and had a successful future.

He didn't put his life at risk IMHO.

if AA really wanted to quit he would take a knee and get counted out.
his trainer can't fight for him.

I think miranda would do the same as AA. These guys live boxing. Its not like they have a diff life they go back to after that. Its not like journeymen who need their health to take last min fights.

Furthermore though you don't agree AA did well by not getting hit
and though he didn't win many of the later rounds (i gave him 2) the fouls were the turning point.

[Pantera2000]

He didn't put his life at risk IMHO.

if AA really wanted to quit he would take a knee and get counted out.
his trainer can't fight for him.

I think miranda would do the same as AA. These guys live boxing. Its not like they have a diff life they go back to after that. Its not like journeymen who need their health to take last min fights.

Furthermore though you don't agree AA did well by not getting hit
and though he didn't win many of the later rounds (i gave him 2) the fouls were the turning point.

A superstar highly skilled boxer does not need their health, but a journeyman does? What planet are you on?
So If Abraham never can fight again you think the right choice was made? Do you realize that he was rushed to the hospital after the fight and went through over 3 hours of surgery and was in ICU for 24 hours (and by the way ICU in Germany basically means that you are considered in danger of death). I have heard from many people that this severe of an injury is hard to recover from and box the same again.

And you say the fouls were the turning point. What fouls? The 1 or 2 unintentional low blows (not groin shots, just barely below the belt enough to be considered low). And the headbutt.... the ref was gonna let this slide without points until Abraham walked to his corner (without the refs permission) and acted hurt by the headbutt.

And even if you find 1-2 points in total to be acceptable, you do not think Abraham should have been at the very least warned for holding and rabbit punches?

No way around it, the ref was as biased as I have ever seen and gave Miranda no chance to win this fight.

[Novirasputin]

A superstar highly skilled boxer does not need their health, but a journeyman does? What planet are you on?
So If Abraham never can fight again you think the right choice was made? Do you realize that he was rushed to the hospital after the fight and went through over 3 hours of surgery and was in ICU for 24 hours (and by the way ICU in Germany basically means that you are considered in danger of death). I have heard from many people that this severe of an injury is hard to recover from and box the same again.

And you say the fouls were the turning point. What fouls? The 1 or 2 unintentional low blows (not groin shots, just barely below the belt enough to be considered low). And the headbutt.... the ref was gonna let this slide without points until Abraham walked to his corner (without the refs permission) and acted hurt by the headbutt.

And even if you find 1-2 points in total to be acceptable, you do not think Abraham should have been at the very least warned for holding and rabbit punches?

No way around it, the ref was as biased as I have ever seen and gave Miranda no chance to win this fight.

I won't argue with you on the fouls anymore, think of it as you being right and me wrong if you want. I saw the fight my opinion on the fouls is in this and other threads.

Yes Abraham got away with stuff but SO did Miranda even if you don't think so which is why the argument is dead.
You are a MIranda fan and i am an Abraham fan.


in any case

YES a journeyman needs his health MORe then a superstar because a Superstar can probably quit after a high profile bout
a journeyman can't.

For the sake of his care a JM needs to be able to be cleared on short notice.

A Superstar is fighting for legacy and his history.
HIs health and his life are a small price to pay in one sense.
We can't understand it cause we are not those athletes but they fight through the pain because they want their legacy.

If AA can't fight after this fight
he won't look back and regret anything he did because he never quit or gave up.

This will be a legendary bout that they will talk about for years to come. It was old school 50 years back when they let it bleed without as much as an afterthought.
These are the types of fights taht made the likes of Ali famous.
Don't go insane and think i am comparing the two
but that is why Gatti was such a hero even if he lost.

Frank Cappucino should have stopped it in the 9th of the 1st bout
but he didn't and do you really think either Ward, Gatti or the fans are blaming him for it?


Miranda's stock will rise as well.

[moochi]

This will be a legendary bout that they will talk about for years to come. It was old school 50 years back when they let it bleed without as much as an afterthought.

fk man, gee you get carried away very easy!!..

AA deserves credit, but tell me what did he do!!...he fought on with a broken jaw!!...many other fighters have done this also....many many!...felix sturm did it from round two till round 10 recently!!..

the thing here, is that AA fought on because he knew all he needed was to run and survive those last 8 rounds and he'd get a decision!!....and that is what happened!!...

[restless_438]

[IMG]http://i60.***********.com/albums/h36/jack0818/r_9_400.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i60.***********.com/albums/h36/jack0818/r_92_400.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i60.***********.com/albums/h36/jack0818/Abraham_Miranda_Kampf4.jpg[/IMG]

[Novirasputin]

fk man, gee you get carried away very easy!!..

AA deserves credit, but tell me what did he do!!...he fought on with a broken jaw!!...many other fighters have done this also....many many!...felix sturm did it from round two till round 10 recently!!..

the thing here, is that AA fought on because he knew all he needed was to run and survive those last 8 rounds and he'd get a decision!!....and that is what happened!!...

Ok this is YOUR opinion!!!

First of all not many fighters win a championship bout with a broken jaw and internal bleeding in teh mouth which goes down the throat.

AA won rounds 1,3,4 and POSSIBLY 5 and had a 2 point deduction
he knew that with the 2 point deduction he had a GREAT chance at winning
and the other Pd's clinched it as well as him winning rounds 8 and 9.

Again you will not agree FINE but that is why.
He didn't just survive he tried to win and did win.


That is no diff then Frank Cappucino letting Gatti continue in the 9th of the first Ward fight when he should have stopped it.

If you don't see it fine
but i am just explaining to you why the fight will be memorable.

[Novirasputin]

IN FACT the proof is in this thread alone.

On every boxing board
this fight is getting multiple threads and multi page responses.

and that is for a fight that was NOT shown in the US.

The heated controversy and debate is teh proof.

even if you don't like this fight for the underdog win like me
you still find the significance in the controversy much like the discussions in many memorable fights.

teh "water bottle"
the last second stoppage
OSDH's liver shot vs Hops



This fight is on that level and even more so IMHO

but that is the explanation i can give to your Q.

[Bozo_no no]

The foul was SEVERE
it was INTENTIONAL it was not accidental
and there is implicit injury with each one.

Hence you are incorrect.

You get more desperate with each post.

The headbutt wasn't severe in the least.

Intentional has nothing to do with you misquoting the IBF rules and then being unable to admit you were wrong.

You were outright wrong, and you acted like a child when you got called on it.

[Novirasputin]

You get more desperate with each post.

The headbutt wasn't severe in the least.

Intentional has nothing to do with you misquoting the IBF rules and then being unable to admit you were wrong.

You were outright wrong, and you acted like a child when you got called on it.

It was intentional
that means auto 2 points by IBF rules.
Injury is implicit.

[Bozo_no no]

It was intentional
that means auto 2 points by IBF rules.
Injury is implicit.

No, it doesn't.

We've been over this 5 times, and you were proven wrong after the 1st time.

There was no injury from the butt, as was stated directly by Neumann after it happend.

You continue to quote the rule under the "Injury (cuts)" section of intentional fouls.

This makes you wrong, and misinformed.

Directly above that section it states the point deductions or DQ depends on the severity of the foul.

The headbutt was FAR from severe, and in any other fight would have earned a warning or a 1 point deduction at worst.

You're wrong, and have been referring to the wrong rule.

It's really sad to see someone so stubborn and unable to admit they're wrong.