Bert Sugar's Top 100 Fighters Of All Time...

[edgarg]

i thought he was too low, but then again i remember the Holyfield in his prime, his 10 year prime

I thought he had a 5 year prime and Even Fields had the other five. Hopkins was smarter. His stint in Correction gave him a lot of smarts. And he had much "Acting" ability, a bullet head, and a "foul" disposition. ( please forgive the puns)

[edgarg]

he deserved to be in there.

He was undefeated @130 for 7 years when there's only one division. that means he was undesputed for 7 yrs.

So was Flash Elorde and his greatest battles (against Ortiz) were when he went up temporarily .And he's no anywhere near this list.

And the FORGOTTEN MAN. He should be HIGH on this list. I refer to Niccolino Locche. NO punch, well over 100 wins, 14 KOs, 3 losses. impossible to hit, stood in the pocket, Opponents gave up in disgust because they couldn't hit him. He won his title that way against Paul Fuji, who gave up in rd 10, although perfectly fit, and un marked, just frustrated.

Smoked like a chimney, even between rounds, believe it or not. a unique physical guy.

[megas30]

I found this in another forum when searching for Bert Sugar's top fighters list. What do you guy think of this list?

1) Ray Robinson
2) Hank Armstrong
3) Willie Pep
4) Joe Louis
5) Harry Greb
6) Benny Leonard
7) Muhammad Ali
8) Roberto Duran
9) Jack Dempsey
10) Jack Johnson
11) Mickey Walker
12) Tony Canzoneri
13) Gene Tunney
14) Rocky Marciano
15) Joe Gans
16) Sam Langford
17) Julio Cesar Chavez
18) Jimmy Wilde
19) Stanley Ketchel
20) Barney Ross
21) Jimmy McClarnin
22) Archie Moore
23) Marcel Cerdan
24) Ezzard Charles
25) Ray Leonard
26) The Original Joe Walcott
27) Jake Lamotta
28) Eder Jofre
29) Emile Griffith
30) Terry McGivern
31) George Foreman
32) Johnny Dundee
33) Jose Napoles
34) Pascual Perez
35) Billy Conn
36) Ruben Olivares
37) Joe Frazier
38) Tommy Loughran
39) Sandy Saddler
40) Kid Chocolate
41) Abe Attell
42) Evander Holyfield
43) George Dixon
44) Maxie Rosenbloom
45) Larry Holmes
46) Ted 'Kid' Lewis
47) Marvin Hagler
48) Pernell Whitaker
49) Carlos Zarate
50) Thomas Hearns
51) Battling Nelson
52) Beau Jack
53) Ricardo Lopez
54) John L Sullivan
55) Carlos Monzon
56) Alexis Arguello
57) Carmen Basilio
58) Pete Herman
59) Charley Burley
60) Ike Williams
61) Kid Gavilan
62) Jack Britton
63) **** Tiger
64) Pancho Villa
65) Panama Al Brown
66) Bob Fitzsimmons
67) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68) Tiger Flowers
69) James J Corbett
70) Tony Zale
71) Tommy Ryan
72) Georges Carpentier
73) Sonny Liston
74) Kid McCoy
75) Bob Foster
76) Freddie Welsh
77) Joe Jeanette
78) Jim Driscoll
79) Jersey Joe Walcott
80) Peter Jackson
81) Ad Wolgast
82) Jack Dempsey nonpareil
83) Manuel Ortiz
84) Jim Jeffries
85) Salvador Sanchez
86) Jimmy Barry
87) Carlos Ortiz
88) Roy Jones jr.
89) Wilfredo Gomez
90) Aaron Pryor
91) Bernard Hopkins
92) Mike Gibbons
93) Jack Delaney
94) Johnny Kilbane
95) Willie Ritchie
96) Wilfred Benitez
97) Packy MacFarland
98) Rocky Graziano
99) Lew Jenkins
100) Mike Tyson

Bias to old school fighters. By the way, where is Mike McCallum, James Toney and Lennox Lewis?

[QueensburyRules]

This is what I mean. TOP lists have to do with skill and overall talent. Whitaker is easily one of the greatest talents of his time, easily and that includes Chavez' time. Whitaker was a better fighter than Chavez, and it showed in their fight.

- - Peashooter was a protected clown fighter and it showed vs JC clearly on the decline after more fights than Peashooter could ever handle.

He chose to clown the fading Mex great in front of his people instead of crafting a definitive win and he did that throughout his career. Randall was no clown and recognized opportunity when he saw it to give the Mex great his first defeat, and Peashooters just can't accept that justice. Pea like Camacho were more talent than great, and interestingly though in shared eras, they never fought.

But Macho was still Macho when he bedazzled and dizzied Ramirez, even knocking him down as compared to Peashooter who pranced into left body hooks all night until he was reduced to a low blow and hanging on strategy to last 12 rounds.

Thanks for the clown reminder of Peashooter.

[BodyBagz]

Its the same sport. The advent of the weirdo nutthuggers like us Pac bois, will protest if he isn't ranked #1 in every era

You mouth foamers ruin everything.

[Willow The Wisp]

Boxing's history is long enough and deep enough to be regarded as a field of study and an area of expertise. Sugar was an Historian. Not a fighter, not a sports writer or journalist, not a promoter or announcer or a blogger and most certainly not just merely a fan. His choices were carefully considered. An unpopular thing to say on a message board (any topic), but Stay in you depth! Many of these corrective suggestions here are cringe worthy. A few are simply...simple. Most people dearly want to be smart, handsome, brilliant. But life can seem cruel in the way that superlative competence is dolled out. Stop telling the pilot how he might better fly the aircraft, or people may die.

[IronDanHamza]

Bias to old school fighters. By the way, where is Mike McCallum, James Toney and Lennox Lewis?

Not included, nor should they be.

Maybe McCallum, certainly not the other two.