Comments Thread For: Canelo Extends His Lead: BoxingScene Competition Index December 2020 Update

[crold1]

Let’s



Nope the Sanctioning bodies do. However in your perfect world, you want pocket aligned PR guys like Cliff Rold to tell us who is Top 10 and who is #1. Not happening GTFOH with that bs. This is a sport. You don’t get to isolate fighters. Champions are determined in the ring not through an election. Keep functioning like you do and many of you will find yourself with out any credibility left.

PR for who? The purpose of this index is to weigh who is facing the best opposition relative to their weight classes. It treats everyone basically the same. While TBRB and Ring or any other press ratings aren't perfect, they have an edge for use here over the sanctioning bodies because they rate whole divisions. Barring rare exceptions, sanctioning bodies don't rate each other's belt holders and their ratings aren't inherently merit based so they wouldn't work for this.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Let’s



Nope the Sanctioning bodies do. However in your perfect world, you want pocket aligned PR guys like Cliff Rold to tell us who is Top 10 and who is #1. Not happening GTFOH with that bs. This is a sport. You don’t get to isolate fighters. Champions are determined in the ring not through an election. Keep functioning like you do and many of you will find yourself with out any credibility left.

It boils down to this, bro.

We're not talking about who we WANT to have guys fight.

We're talking about credibility. Resume.

Mandatories, BY DEFINITION, is you fighting the #1 guy for your belt.

Yildirim is #1 to fight Canelo. Canelo wins, it counts.

YOU don't like it, because YOU want someone like 'eye test' Andrade to get a shot.

Problem is your boy refuses to fight a Top 10. And don't say "promoter!" - BS and you know it. He just refuses to accept B-Side. Like so many others. Andrade, Crawford, Ennis, Dillian Whyte, Big Baby, etc etc.

ANY fight can be made when the B-Side takes inspiration from Floyd/De La Hoya. But they don't. So they whine about being ducked, meanwhile, I will continue to criticize those resumes.

That's what real fans do, they demand fighters to step up realistically. If you haven't fought a Top 10, fight one. Then fight #9, 8, 7... until you get to whoever is at top. Then you beat them decisively. All the whole, you may need to short the money a bit. Beat the top guy, you become A-Side, now you call the shots.

But it starts with accepting B-Side, beat your mandatories beat Top 10s. It's an easy formula, Canelo has been showing the way for years. That's why he's the cash cow now.

[crold1]

It boils down to this, bro.

We're not talking about who we WANT to have guys fight.

We're talking about credibility. Resume.

Mandatories, BY DEFINITION, is you fighting the #1 guy for your belt.

Yildirim is #1 to fight Canelo. Canelo wins, it counts.

YOU don't like it, because YOU want someone like 'eye test' Andrade to get a shot.

Problem is your boy refuses to fight a Top 10. And don't say "promoter!" - BS and you know it. He just refuses to accept B-Side. Like so many others. Andrade, Crawford, Ennis, Dillian Whyte, Big Baby, etc etc.

ANY fight can be made when the B-Side takes inspiration from Floyd/De La Hoya. But they don't. So they whine about being ducked, meanwhile, I will continue to criticize those resumes.

That's what real fans do, they demand fighters to step up realistically. If you haven't fought a Top 10, fight one. Then fight #9, 8, 7... until you get to whoever is at top. Then you beat them decisively. All the whole, you may need to short the money a bit. Beat the top guy, you become A-Side, now you call the shots.

But it starts with accepting B-Side, beat your mandatories beat Top 10s. It's an easy formula, Canelo has been showing the way for years. That's why he's the cash cow now.

This metric won't reward Alvarez for fighting Yildirim. He'll lose ground (though likely remain at 1) as Yildirim isn't rated top ten by TBRB or Ring going into the fight (unless something changes which would be unexpected). The fight at super middleweight that would do the most for Alvarez in the index is David Benavidez followed by Plant. They are the next two behind him in both the sets of ratings used here.

It will hurt him temporarily in weighing his last two fights but his overall score, if he wins, will remain the same because he'll get credit for activity as the Golovkin win isn't more than 3 years old yet.

This thing will change with the results. Part of the fun. It's not necessarily a measure of who is the best; it's a measure of who is fighting the best around their weights. I'm doing these as a regular article once a month or so and the staff voted P4P list in parallel. Folks can compare and debate away.

[Combat Talk Radio]

This metric won't reward Alvarez for fighting Yildirim. He'll lose ground (though likely remain at 1) as Yildirim isn't rated top ten by TBRB or Ring going into the fight (unless something changes which would be unexpected). The fight at super middleweight that would do the most for Alvarez in the index is David Benavidez followed by Plant. They are the next two behind him in both the sets of ratings used here.

It will hurt him temporarily in weighing his last two fights but his overall score, if he wins, will remain the same because he'll get credit for activity as the Golovkin win isn't more than 3 years old yet.

This thing will change with the results. Part of the fun. It's not necessarily a measure of who is the best; it's a measure of who is fighting the best around their weights. I'm doing these as a regular article once a month or so and the staff voted P4P list in parallel. Folks can compare and debate away.

It won't reward him, but it won't harm him, either. That's the beauty I see.

You got a lot of flack last time for Crawford getting dropped off the list, but look at why. He wasn't fighting top guys AND he stopped fighting mandatories. He was feasting on his 140, mostly. That ship sailed.

With Canelo he's fresh off #1 lineal Smith, fights a mandatory because he has to, then go back to beat another top ranked fighter.

But that's better than a guy who fights UNRANKED, then mandatory, then UNRANKED again.

Canelo is fighting the #1 guy for his belt, is what I mean. That should be praised and more fighters should be doing at least that if they're not going to fight Top 10s. That's my point.

[Fire4231]

PR for who? The purpose of this index is to weigh who is facing the best opposition relative to their weight classes. It treats everyone basically the same.
No it doesn’t. It creates new obstacles for other champions that subsequently keep division unifications from happening.

While TBRB and Ring or any other press ratings aren't perfect, they have an edge for use here over the sanctioning bodies because they rate whole divisions.

Are you kidding me? Both these organizations are configured around biased. Ring is owned by Golden Boy and TBRB are a collection stagnant Media Boxing writers like yourself assisting anyone not making great matchups. Who are you fooling bro?

Barring rare exceptions, sanctioning bodies don't rate each other's belt holders and their ratings aren't inherently merit based so they wouldn't work for this.

Cliff so are you saying your rating system should take precedence over a divisional belt holder? And if you are going to say belt holders aren’t fighting ranked competition so they don’t deserve the fight, then why is it we keep having to watch likes of Steve Rolls and Rocky Fielding?

Btw- Where is the outrage there? And if fans are ready to spend big money to see two belt holders, why aren’t these “Index Dominant,” champions scurrying to clean up the division and grab these so called easy belts? Wouldn’t they gross so much more money than the tired mismatches we have to suffer through repeatedly?

The truth is not in your list bro. The truth is in how it is applied. Whether your index validated him or not Demetrius Andrade, Caleb Plant, Jermall Charlo, Edward Rodriguez etc. etc. etc have real belts.

So how are you going to analytically justify that fighters like GGG and Canelo do not fight belt holders and high ranked contenders due to a voter index? Especially when the guys at Ring and TBRB support index champions fighting lesser guys without belts not anywhere near as strong on your analytical snub list?

Bro, you guys are losing respect and credibility by the second. Not all boxing fans are dumb. We see what you are doing. You can lure some into getting fixated on the complication of the index process. However what we see is the application sides with the fighters your website has been endorsing for some time.

What’s de****able is fighters dedicate there life to training and sharpening their skills from early childhood. They work all their lives to become the best and earn it through pain and suffrage. They take live beatings even as children for audience amusement. The pay off is hoping to get a big pay day down the line. Then they bump their head on old media’s glass ceiling.

Why because “journalists,” like you protect the guy who already has time served and a boatload of money. You glut the natural system by keeping the current cream from rising. As importantly you limit the established fighters legacy because there career is surrounded by nothing but elected dominance.

We will never see another Golden Age because of your actions. I believe Canelo has a good chance of beating Charlo but someone is so afraid Charlo would beat him we can’t see it?
If you can’t prove you are the best then why do you deserve to get the best paydays. And if people would show up regardless then just have the index champions drop the belts. They can fight as many bums as they want. Give all of them the franchise belt and take them out the mix.

This is why boxing isn’t making money. En****** are preventing the best fights. What’s worst is the guy on the rise who deserves a shot may have a family in a war zone somewhere. But you don’t care do you?

Bro...You guys are disgusting. There is no justification for what you do. And being strategic about how you screw boxing makes it no less embarrassing.

Either you are in the promoters pocket or you hold the same insecurity’s that show up in the worst of boxing culture. But you are not behaving like a journalist. Stop fooling yourself your movement is not righteous. This sir should be a sport. And any failure to generate revenue is coming from these fight prevention efforts that try to tell us we don’t need to see the biggest most polarizing fights. You are disrupting yourselves because we only tune in when boxing is behaving like a sport. Keep taking that short term pay for a near term exit.

[Fire4231]

It boils down to this, bro.

We're not talking about who we WANT to have guys fight.

No you are right but what you are doing is protecting fighters by saying they are above the guys that represent their biggest challenge and sometimes highest available payday.

We're talking about credibility. Resume. Really.... that all makes sense using your index until Callum Smith and Rocky Fielding get the nod , their resume looks worst and the Boxing Writers praise the matchup.

Mandatories, BY DEFINITION, is you fighting the #1 guy for your belt. And the vote based index helps justify why those mandatories and unifications don’t need to happen. According to our voter index the belt holder hasn’t fought anybody... hmmm

Yildirim is #1 to fight Canelo. Canelo wins, it counts. You are a boxing afficianado and you believe Yildirim is the most worthy adversary for Canelo? Come on bro, just say you approve of Canelo resting behavior at the top. He is hooking up his sparring partner with a big Pay Day at a real contenders expense. Who’s next Canelo’s brother?

YOU don't like it, because YOU want someone like 'eye test' Andrade to get a shot.

To be honest as dangerous as Andrade is he doesn’t seem to want to challenge himself. I am not impressed by his lack of drive. However he has a belt right. If Andrade is just an Eye Test why don’t Canelo and GGG go get that easy “Eye Test” belt? Clearly they aren’t above fighting guys who aren’t on the index but don’t past the “Eye Test.”

Problem is your boy refuses to fight a Top 10. And don't say "promoter!" - BS and you know it. He just refuses to accept B-Side. Like so many others. Andrade, Crawford, Ennis, Dillian Whyte, Big Baby, etc etc.

There a lot of different situations happening within the collection of fighters you just rattled off. Not even sure how they all ended up in the same bucket? Why is Ennis on there? Nobody is advocating the cheat Big Baby get anything.

As for Terrence Crawford he is my boy and I have been vehemently saying on this site he is the B-Side and he needs to fight a top fighter at 147. Dillian Whyte is with Hearn of course he isn’t fighting anyone. Hearn fails to pull the trigger on great matchups. I think we mostly agree.

ANY fight can be made when the B-Side takes inspiration from Floyd/De La Hoya. But they don't. So they whine about being ducked, meanwhile, I will continue to criticize those resumes.

No self respecting business is going to allow a Promotional entity like Top Rank to muscle them with an illogical A-Side just because they have too much pride to honor their current business position. Bob will disrupt himself because we are on to him. We have been watching his magic act for too many years now. Cross promotional fights are discussed but rarely ever happen.

That's what real fans do, they demand fighters to step up realistically. If you haven't fought a Top 10, fight one. Then fight #9, 8, 7... until you get to whoever is at top.

Hopefully you are talking to Crawford. What I see is a failure of Media to acknowledge the superior position of several fighters connected to one promotional entity. This happens repeatedly and allows low ball offers the false image of real promoter effort.

Then you beat them decisively. All the whole, you may need to short the money a bit. Beat the top guy, you become A-Side, now you call the shots.

The fights would happen with a fair wage. Why should Shawn Porter get a million dollars when Kel Brook and Amir Kahn who were past it just received much more? Where was Mr. Brook on the index?

But it starts with accepting B-Side, beat your mandatories beat Top 10s. It's an easy formula, Canelo has been showing the way for years. That's why he's the cash cow now.

As stated accepting B-Side doesn’t mean accepting a ridiculous low ball offer. And if you wanted to see the fights you would call out these promoters when that change on the dollar is offered on a massive matchup.

[ShoulderRoll]

Cliff so are you saying your rating system should take precedence over a divisional belt holder?

Cliff's rating system just shows who is facing the best competition. Going strictly by the numbers. That's it.

He's not trying to say that it should replace anything.

[Fire4231]

Cliff's rating system just shows who is facing the best competition. Going strictly by the numbers. That's it.

He's not trying to say that it should replace anything.

Cliff’s job is to use journalistic integrity to secure the long-term viability and health of one of the worlds oldest and greatest sports.

Why is Cliff designing index’s to honor the idea that even belt holders don’t need to face each other for major money and global fan satisfaction?

[ShoulderRoll]

Cliff’s job is to use journalistic integrity to secure the long-term viability and health of one of the worlds oldest and greatest sports.

Why is Cliff designing index’s to honor the idea that even belt holders don’t need to face each other for major money and global fan satisfaction?

Not sure what you mean. If belt holders faced each other their competition index would increase in Cliff's system.

[crold1]

Not sure what you mean. If belt holders faced each other their competition index would increase in Cliff's system.

Eight of the top ten have won unification matches in recent vintage. Canelo would get more credit in this metric for fighting Charlo than Yildirim and the most credit at 168 right now for fighting Benavidez and Plant. If he fought two Yildirim's in a row, he'd plummet. The five fight and/or three year block is there to manage against extending credit for old work. The last two fights emphasis insures guys like Mell and Teo are rewarded for the most recent action.