Tyson Fury nominated for SPOTY

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We should be PROUD that a boxer is nominated and want him to win whether you like him or not.

Yeah man.

I would support ANY boxer over a car driver.

[BodiesInFlight]

Yeah but Formula One is a different kettle of fish altogether because you could argue it’s more about the car and the driver

Put it this way Jenson Button drove for different teams and really mostly got nowhere winning the championship. Drove one season for Brawn in 2009 and won the championship.

So it’s clearly more about the car, because if he was so good he would’ve won the championship other teams or got close.

The fact you can be finishing 15th and 18th in the world for the previous 2 years and then move to another car manufacturer and finish 1st clearly shows it’s about the car.

Don’t get me wrong, you’ve got to be an excellent driver to get in Formula One in the first place but once you’re there, it’s really largely dependent on the car.

You're arguing that boxing is harder than f1 which is a fine and valid opinion but that isn't what the sports personality of the year is for.

I get you're a Fury fan but he shouldn't win it every year just because boxing is seen as the harder sport.

[deathofaclown]

You're arguing that boxing is harder than f1 which is a fine and valid opinion but that isn't what the sports personality of the year is for.

I get you're a Fury fan but he shouldn't win it every year just because boxing is seen as the harder sport.

I’m not arguing anything, I really don’t care who wins, but I find it hard to have full respect for someone as a sportsman when the car is more important.

I wouldn’t care if somebody like Ronnie o’Sullivan won, even though snooker is not physically as difficult as boxing, but it takes hours and hours of mental focus and you are relying on yourself, not a car.

As I say , I don’t care who wins but Lewis Hamilton’s car should win it if he wins, not him.

[sunny31]

I’m not arguing anything, I really don’t care who wins, but I find it hard to have full respect for someone as a sportsman when the car is more important.

I wouldn’t care if somebody like Ronnie o’Sullivan won, even though snooker is not physically as difficult as boxing, but it takes hours and hours of mental focus and you are relying on yourself, not a car.

As I say , I don’t care who wins but Lewis Hamilton’s car should win it if he wins, not him.

You sound proper ignorant pal, yes in 90% of the f1 championships you need the best car but there is more to it than that, you're over simplifying the sport which is what a lot of casuals do.

There are a handful of drivers that have won the f1 championship in a car that has not won the constructors title, do you know who one of them is? (Rhetorical)

So I'll flip that back over to you, could Ronnie O beat John Higgins or Stephen Hendry (when he played) in their primes with a disadvantage? Smaller pockets for him? Bent snooker cue? Because that is essentially what Hamilton did over a whole season.

He arguably has done it twice as another poster has already mentioned...in 2018 it is not at all clear that Merc had the best car, Hamilton won the championship by 88 points, and Merc beat Ferreri by 84 points, meaning it looks like Lewis himself made the difference. His teammate in that season Bottas finished 5th, and the Ferrari drivers Vettel and Raikonnen finished 2nd and 3rd. In 2019 and 2020 seasons Bottas has been 2nd - meaning when the merc is the best car he is generally good enough to follow Hanilton home.

Now that aside F1 is a team sport - the drivers are the main part but of course you need top engineers and mechanics to have a competitive car. Could Messi have won as many champions leagues without Xavi, iniesta, and Guardiola as coach? Why is F1 any different? Would Hamilton still be a genius in a William's? Yes - he would not be winning championships but he'd still be a genius - he would still pull out results that are disproportionate to the potential of that car . He is in the best car currently because he showed that genius all the way through his junior career - up to and including F1. Where in his rookie season he matched and beat Fernando Alonso in the same car, who is also an ATG - the man that pretty much dethroned Schumacher.

I'm not even sure if Lewis is the absolute quickest anymore at 35 years, I think it's close between him and a young chap called Max Verstappen - who is dragging unbelievable performances out of the Red Bull, the thing is everyone that follows the sport can see Max's abilities and potential. He will have his time, and will most likely find himself in the best car on the grid at some point.

This is the way F1 works and always has worked in the past.

Lastly I think it is comical that you mention concentration. Comparing a snooker player to an F1 driver where they are travelling so quickly that they have to constantly be looking for breaking zones 100-200 metres in front of them, whilst driving absolutely on the limit, and racing other cars. They have to do this for two hours, whilst simultaneously making adjustments on their steering wheel, accounting for a constantly reducing fuel load, and communicating with their team on the radio. All of this - with the pressure that if they get it wrong the consequence is mostly likely an injury or death. I have already mentioned how physical F1 is in a previous post so I will politely agree to disagree

[deathofaclown]

You sound proper ignorant pal, yes in 90% of the f1 championships you need the best car but there is more to it than that, you're over simplifying the sport which is what a lot of casuals do.

There are a handful of drivers that have won the f1 championship in a car that has not won the constructors title, do you know who one of them is? (Rhetorical)

So I'll flip that back over to you, could Ronnie O beat John Higgins or Stephen Hendry (when he played) in their primes with a disadvantage? Smaller pockets for him? Bent snooker cue? Because that is essentially what Hamilton did over a whole season.

He arguably has done it twice as another poster has already mentioned...in 2018 it is not at all clear that Merc had the best car, Hamilton won the championship by 88 points, and Merc beat Ferreri by 84 points, meaning it looks like Lewis himself made the difference. His teammate in that season Bottas finished 5th, and the Ferrari drivers Vettel and Raikonnen finished 2nd and 3rd. In 2019 and 2020 seasons Bottas has been 2nd - meaning when the merc is the best car he is generally good enough to follow Hanilton home.

Now that aside F1 is a team sport - the drivers are the main part but of course you need top engineers and mechanics to have a competitive car. Could Messi have won as many champions leagues without Xavi, iniesta, and Guardiola as coach? Why is F1 any different? Would Hamilton still be a genius in a William's? Yes - he would not be winning championships but he'd still be a genius - he would still pull out results that are disproportionate to the potential of that car . He is in the best car currently because he showed that genius all the way through his junior career - up to and including F1. Where in his rookie season he matched and beat Fernando Alonso in the same car, who is also an ATG - the man that pretty much dethroned Schumacher.

I'm not even sure if Lewis is the absolute quickest anymore at 35 years, I think it's close between him and a young chap called Max Verstappen - who is dragging unbelievable performances out of the Red Bull, the thing is everyone that follows the sport can see Max's abilities and potential. He will have his time, and will most likely find himself in the best car on the grid at some point.

This is the way F1 works and always has worked in the past.

Lastly I think it is comical that you mention concentration. Comparing a snooker player to an F1 driver where they are travelling so quickly that they have to constantly be looking for breaking zones 100-200 metres in front of them, whilst driving absolutely on the limit, and racing other cars. They have to do this for two hours, whilst simultaneously making adjustments on their steering wheel, accounting for a constantly reducing fuel load, and communicating with their team on the radio. All of this - with the pressure that if they get it wrong the consequence is mostly likely an injury or death. I have already mentioned how physical F1 is in a previous post so I will politely agree to disagree

I have no doubt it takes great skill. As I said in another post, to even get into F1 means you are a great driver.

But like my example shows, If Jenson Button can finish 15th and 18th for two years in a row, switch cars and then win the title, it obviously shows the car is much more important than the driver.

I never once said I don’t respect their ability for what they do, I merely said that I think the car itself is more important than who is inside it.

[removed]

I have no doubt it takes great skill. As I said in another post, to even get into F1 means you are a great driver.

But like my example shows, If Jenson Button can finish 15th and 18th for two years in a row, switch cars and then win the title, it obviously shows the car is much more important than the driver.

I never once said I don’t respect their ability for what they do, I merely said that I think the car itself is more important than who is inside it.

Of course it is. Put Hamilton in a Honda and he wouldn't win a single race, F1 stans can cry about it, but it's a fact.

Hamilton is no more talented than any other driver, put a nobody in his car and they'll start winning races.

[CasperUK]

Hes been in crap cars (2009) and still won races/poles - it's an ignorant statement (no offence) because the best drivers will end up in the best cars. Guy has been winning in karts, formula Renault, most dominant f3 season of all time, gp2, and F1 in his second year (2008) with not the best car btw.

He is padding his stats now and has had a dominant car for the majority of the last 6 seasons but still...

I'm a big f1 fan, his achievements must be respected - guys been winning for 25 years

His 2009 season started with an awful car. It ended the season with a totally different car. After Hungary they introduced a B-Spec version of the Mclaren MP4-24 that had little in common with its season starter.

It had a totally different aero, suspension and floor package, and that's why Hamilton won with it. Let's not pretend the Lewis suddenly found an extra 2 seconds per lap within himself and dragged that awful first car to regular winning positions.

That B-spec 2009 car was for all intents and purposes a totally different car and it was the car that Mclaren carried into the opening of 2010 and refined throughout 2010. Button won the opening race of 2010 with it and it was also the car that went to Abu Dhabi as a title contender.

[sunny31]

I have no doubt it takes great skill. As I said in another post, to even get into F1 means you are a great driver.

But like my example shows, If Jenson Button can finish 15th and 18th for two years in a row, switch cars and then win the title, it obviously shows the car is much more important than the driver.

I never once said I don’t respect their ability for what they do, I merely said that I think the car itself is more important than who is inside it.

Again just an over simplification of the sport as you are measured against the potential of your car and your teammate. The car matters, of course it does but it's the drivers who have the ability to make a difference, so you're wrong about that.

Button had high finishes previously, finished 3rd and 6th in two different championships - won a wet race in the BAR as well. The potential of him was there, of course you still need a competitive car to win the championship.

He was also somewhat of a child prodigy, maybe not Hamilton level but everyone was aware of his potential. Any of these drivers still have to beat one of the other 20 best drivers in the world in the same car.

Ultimately there are levels just like boxing. A guy like Button, or Damon Hill, they probably needed a certain set of circumstances to win a championship and the level of them meant that they were able to win a single title and some races.

To win multiple titles, races, poles, in different cars, circumstances, different teammates and that is where you have the Fangios, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Clark if he hadn't died and Lewis is in that bracket...I think those guys are on a different level.

This is nothing personal - but trying explain why Hamilton is special, absolutely a generational talent.

[sunny31]

His 2009 season started with an awful car. It ended the season with a totally different car. After Hungary they introduced a B-Spec version of the Mclaren MP4-24 that had little in common with its season starter.

It had a totally different aero, suspension and floor package, and that's why Hamilton won with it. Let's not pretend the Lewis suddenly found an extra 2 seconds per lap within himself and dragged that awful first car to regular winning positions.

That B-spec 2009 car was for all intents and purposes a totally different car and it was the car that Mclaren carried into the opening of 2010 and refined throughout 2010. Button won the opening race of 2010 with it and it was also the car that went to Abu Dhabi as a title contender.

Yes I know all this, he should in fairness have had a podium in Australia on merit, if the radio fiasco hadn't happened, which is remarkable. Also he did win and get poles that season when Kovaleinen did not. That is the main point of the original post, hes had a pole and win in every season and not always had the best car, and his teammates haven't always been able to do the same.

[CasperUK]

Yes I know all this, he should in fairness have had a podium in Australia on merit, if the radio fiasco hadn't happened, which is remarkable. Also he did win and get poles that season when Kovaleinen did not. That is the main point of the original post, hes had a pole and win in every season and not always had the best car, and his teammates haven't always been able to do the same.

I bet the American posters on here are thinking "WTF are these Limeys talking about?"