Comments Thread For: Hearn: Fury Should Skip Stay-Busy Return, Face Joshua Next

[Blackstarr]

The bias is strong with you. Duhaupas had 2 good rounds in the entire fight, many ring side observers felt the corner should have stopped the fight sometime after the 2nd round. That was a pretty easy fight for Wilder, you have revisionist history.

Szpilka it was a competitive fight, but the fight was far less competitive after the fourth. Szpilka only won 2 rounds on 2 score cards and 3 rounds on the other. It was also a fight that saw one of the most vicious knocked outs in history that resulted in Szpilka being taken out in a stretcher.

You see where this is going? Your dislike of Wilder has clouded your ability to judge a fight for what actually happened. A competitive fight turns into a fight where Wilder struggled. A fight where betting odds listed AJ at a -2500 and his opponent a +950, AJ gets knocked out and it's not considered a lost to a nobody because that nobody once fought for a title.

You see, when you're not a blind fan, or a hater of another boxer, its easy to say, Wilder had competitive fights against guys he should have beaten. Then real fans remember that Wilder started boxing at the age of 21 went to the Olympics and turned pro less than a year later. So when I see Wilder struggle and make mistakes against another boxer, its not as bad as AJ getting knocked around by a person he was supposed to handle in Ruiz. Samething goes for Fury and Wallin. Difference between you and I, I'm a fan of all 3.

Nitpick those fights all you want - I saw those fights and they were absolutely more competitive than whatever the scorecards showed.

It’s true I’m no fan of Wilder, and I don’t care if he’s a late starter to boxing - so was AJ. Yet look at AJ’s record compared to Wilder..how could it be that Wilder has only faced 4 top 20 fighters in his career? If you’re calling Ruiz Jr a nobody, by extension would you say that Wilder’s W column entirely consists of nobodies, including Ortiz who has done nothing?

Either way, you’re right - AJ had no business losing to Ruiz Jr and obviously this is worse since Wilder still got the W at the end of the day. But you’re moving the goalposts here, because all I said is that AJ or Fury haven’t lost rounds against the type of club fighters that Wilder has filled his resume with.

And just because I’m not a fan doesn’t mean I’m biased - I am objective with every fighter I dislike, including Whyte. By you not acknowledging Wilder’s resume is terrible by any standards and dismissing Ruiz Jr as a nobody, while refusing to acknowledge any distinction between him and Wilder’s opponents, it’s you that’s proving your bias.

[KnickTillDeaTh]

Nitpick those fights all you want - I saw those fights and they were absolutely more competitive than whatever the scorecards showed.

It’s true I’m no fan of Wilder, and I don’t care if he’s a late starter to boxing - so was AJ. Yet look at AJ’s record compared to Wilder..how could it be that Wilder has only faced 4 top 20 fighters in his career? If you’re calling Ruiz Jr a nobody, by extension would you say that Wilder’s W column entirely consists of nobodies, including Ortiz who has done nothing?

Either way, you’re right - AJ had no business losing to Ruiz Jr and obviously this is worse since Wilder still got the W at the end of the day. But you’re moving the goalposts here, because all I said is that AJ or Fury haven’t lost rounds against the type of club fighters that Wilder has filled his resume with.

And just because I’m not a fan doesn’t mean I’m biased - I am objective with every fighter I dislike, including Whyte. By you not acknowledging Wilder’s resume is terrible by any standards and dismissing Ruiz Jr as a nobody, while refusing to acknowledge any distinction between him and Wilder’s opponents, it’s you that’s proving your bias.

I have not said a single thing about Wilders resume, that was not what the conversation was about (moving the goal post?). This convo was about your assertion that Wilder struggled against lesser competition while AJ and Fury don't. Blatantly un true and short sided. And the distinction I'm making is between the 3 fighters themselves, not their opponents. Because using the logic of people like you who say Wilder is not a good boxer, then your distinction between opponents is flawed. What you fail to acknowledge is the measurement of skill between Wilder and his opponent, AJ and his opponent, Fury and his opponent. By that measurement szpilka is to Wilder what Ruiz is to AJ. You can't say Wilder is less skilled than AJ and Fury, then in the same breath, equate him to them both because it suits your argument. If you can't understand this, then this conversation need not continue

[Blackstarr]

I have not said a single thing about Wilders resume, that was not what the conversation was about (moving the goal post?). This convo was about your assertion that Wilder struggled against lesser competition while AJ and Fury don't. Blatantly un true and short sided. And the distinction I'm making is between the 3 fighters themselves, not their opponents. Because using the logic of people like you who say Wilder is not a good boxer, then your distinction between opponents is flawed. What you fail to acknowledge is the measurement of skill between Wilder and his opponent, AJ and his opponent, Fury and his opponent. By that measurement szpilka is to Wilder what Ruiz is to AJ. You can't say Wilder is less skilled than AJ and Fury, then in the same breath, equate him to them both because it suits your argument. If you can't understand this, then this conversation need not continue

I’m sorry but you need to learn comprehension. I did not for once say that AJ and Fury haven’t struggled against “lesser competition”, which they obviously both have - anyone that argues otherwise is foolish. What I said is that they haven’t struggled or routinely lost rounds against “nobodies”, which I defined as low level journeymen who have lost to other journeymen. See the difference?

Now if you want to class Ruiz Jr as a nobody to suit your argument, or assert that my argument is inconsequential because Wilder is less skilled, then knock yourself out.

And regardless of why he has lost rounds against such fighters, my real issue with Wilder is that he has entirely filled his resume with such fighters in the first place. Whyte also has a limited skillset, struggles massively in fights and is equally dislikable, yet he constantly challenges himself and has a better resume than Wilder, which is why I don’t criticise. Wilder on the other hand openly ducked Klitschko in 2015, the year Fury later fought him, hasn’t had one unification, hasn’t had one signature victory, yet has the loudest mouth of them all and has totally disgraced himself and the sport over the last month. It’s easy to see why I’m not a fan.

[KnickTillDeaTh]

I’m sorry but you need to learn comprehension. I did not for once say that AJ and Fury haven’t struggled against “lesser competition”, which they obviously both have - anyone that argues otherwise is foolish. What I said is that they haven’t struggled or routinely lost rounds against “nobodies”, which I defined as low level journeymen who have lost to other journeymen. See the difference?

Now if you want to class Ruiz Jr as a nobody to suit your argument, or assert that my argument is inconsequential because Wilder is less skilled, then knock yourself out.

And regardless of why he has lost rounds against such fighters, my real issue with Wilder is that he has entirely filled his resume with such fighters in the first place. Whyte also has a limited skillset, struggles massively in fights and is equally dislikable, yet he constantly challenges himself and has a better resume than Wilder, which is why I don’t criticise. Wilder on the other hand openly ducked Klitschko in 2015, the year Fury later fought him, hasn’t had one unification, hasn’t had one signature victory, yet has the loudest mouth of them all and has totally disgraced himself and the sport over the last month. It’s easy to see why I’m not a fan.

You try to make yourself sound fair but then you go ahead and make those same biased arguments that Wilder haters always make. Give him no credit for his Ortiz win, or his first Stiverne win, or even his Breazelle win who no matter how you feel, was highly rated. Then you drop the favorite hater line Wilder ducked Klitschko. See, if you were actually being objective, you would know that Wilder was not ready for Klitschko. Anybody who's not just here to bash Wilder knows that his resume is weak because Wilder had no Amateur career, and his professional career was used as a pseudo Amateur career. Also AJ has never fought anyone as good as Fury, but no credit to Wilder for at least getting a draw? This is why its easy to see the bias with you. How about the fact that Parker was eager to fight AJ but to this day does not want to fight Wilder, or are you so deep into the Wilder hate that you believe he ducked Parker? I bet you blame Wilder for the whole Povetkin fiasco as well.

All 3 of these men deserve credit for what they have done. And all 3 of these men have ****ed up character traits. But only one of these men won a bronze medal in the Olympics only 6 months after boxing for the first time, went on to win a WBC Heavyweight title with 10 successful defenses, and became the second highest paid active Heavyweight. You can't find credit or legitimacy in that? No, then you're no different than the rest who hate Wilder on here.

[Blackstarr]

You try to make yourself sound fair but then you go ahead and make those same biased arguments that Wilder haters always make. Give him no credit for his Ortiz win, or his first Stiverne win, or even his Breazelle win who no matter how you feel, was highly rated. Then you drop the favorite hater line Wilder ducked Klitschko. See, if you were actually being objective, you would know that Wilder was not ready for Klitschko. Anybody who's not just here to bash Wilder knows that his resume is weak because Wilder had no Amateur career, and his professional career was used as a pseudo Amateur career. Also AJ has never fought anyone as good as Fury, but no credit to Wilder for at least getting a draw? This is why its easy to see the bias with you. How about the fact that Parker was eager to fight AJ but to this day does not want to fight Wilder, or are you so deep into the Wilder hate that you believe he ducked Parker? I bet you blame Wilder for the whole Povetkin fiasco as well.

All 3 of these men deserve credit for what they have done. And all 3 of these men have ****ed up character traits. But only one of these men won a bronze medal in the Olympics only 6 months after boxing for the first time, went on to win a WBC Heavyweight title with 10 successful defenses, and became the second highest paid active Heavyweight. You can't find credit or legitimacy in that? No, then you're no different than the rest who hate Wilder on here.

No I don’t give Wilder credit for that “draw”, because any objective observer will tell you that Fury won that fight, despite still being out of shape from his extended layoff. We don’t even need to go into what a fully fit Fury did to him. And what proof do you have that Parker doesn’t want to fight Wilder? Hearn made a number offers for Parker to face AJ in drawn out and public negotiations, but what has Al Haymon or whoever offered Parker that he has then turned down? You’re literally using unsubstantiated speculation in your argument and you’re saying I’m biased?

But you really know someone is biased when they bend over backwards spouting actual lies in defence of a fighter. A simple check will tell you that Wilder picked up boxing 3 years before the olympics and not 6 months, and has an amateur record not too dissimilar to AJ’s. And you also know someone is really scraping the bottom of the barrel when they bring up Brezeale and Stiverne (a Charles Martin level fighter) as signature wins.

And quit with the BS ‘not ready’ excuse..he wasn’t a rookie. Once you’re HW champion of the world and run your mouth as much as Wilder does, you have to be ready for all the smoke - no excuses! Besides, ‘not being ready’ is literally THE go-to reason to avoid a fighter..how does this not make it a duck? True champions chase greatness and choose to sink or swim.

All you’re doing right now is making a bunch of excuses, some of them lies, for why Wikder is so unskilled and why his record is so poor. But by extension you’re implicitly agreeing with what I’ve objectively stated anyway. So tell me who’s the one being biased?

[Watcherw1]

you're lying several ringside experts and online outlets had it a draw or wilder winning

[KnickTillDeaTh]

No I don’t give Wilder credit for that “draw”, because any objective observer will tell you that Fury won that fight, despite still being out of shape from his extended layoff. We don’t even need to go into what a fully fit Fury did to him. And what proof do you have that Parker doesn’t want to fight Wilder? Hearn made a number offers for Parker to face AJ in drawn out and public negotiations, but what has Al Haymon or whoever offered Parker that he has then turned down? You’re literally using unsubstantiated speculation in your argument and you’re saying I’m biased?

But you really know someone is biased when they bend over backwards spouting actual lies in defence of a fighter. A simple check will tell you that Wilder picked up boxing 3 years before the olympics and not 6 months, and has an amateur record not too dissimilar to AJ’s. And you also know someone is really scraping the bottom of the barrel when they bring up Brezeale and Stiverne (a Charles Martin level fighter) as signature wins.

And quit with the BS ‘not ready’ excuse..he wasn’t a rookie. Once you’re HW champion of the world and run your mouth as much as Wilder does, you have to be ready for all the smoke - no excuses! Besides, ‘not being ready’ is literally THE go-to reason to avoid a fighter..how does this not make it a duck? True champions chase greatness and choose to sink or swim.

All you’re doing right now is making a bunch of excuses, some of them lies, for why Wikder is so unskilled and why his record is so poor. But by extension you’re implicitly agreeing with what I’ve objectively stated anyway. So tell me who’s the one being biased?

You're hilarious how you cling to something. I missed a part of the sentence lol - After boxing for the first time "in the trials", but ill forgive you're excitement at believing you "got" me in lie lol.

And here is where your bias comes into play again. AJs amateur career is filled with multiple high level competitions, including the world championship games, and the olympics, for a total of 7 or 8 championship competitions, if memory serves me right, where as Wilder only competed in 3. But you conveniently overlook that.

There are a mountain of articles that show Wilder clearly pursuing a fight against Parker, articles of Wilder begging for the fight. There is not one single article in which Parker actually says he wants to fight Wilder, as a matter of fact, you'll find interviews of him suggesting Wilder fight AJ rather than saying he himself wants to fight Wilder. Its very easy to make a conclusion on that.

You need to go back and re-discover what actual objective observers said about Wilder Fury 1. Because objective viewers were split right down the middle.

https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-result-outrageous--134428

https://www.boxingscene.com/hopkins-wilder-beat-fury-knock-him-out-rematch--134550

https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-boxing-insiders-weigh-on-scoring--134267

3 articles that clearly show your bias.

Wilder defeating Stiverene for the WBC title is a notable win that Wilder deserves credit for. Breazelle was highly rated and Wilder defeated him in more impressive fashion than AJ. Ortiz and a draw against Fury he deserves credit for. You don't agree because you don't like Wilder, your biased feelings, and hater goggles prevents you from seeing it.

[Blackstarr]

You're hilarious how you cling to something. I missed a part of the sentence lol - After boxing for the first time "in the trials", but ill forgive you're excitement at believing you "got" me in lie lol.

And here is where your bias comes into play again. AJs amateur career is filled with multiple high level competitions, including the world championship games, and the olympics, for a total of 7 or 8 championship competitions, if memory serves me right, where as Wilder only competed in 3. But you conveniently overlook that.

There are a mountain of articles that show Wilder clearly pursuing a fight against Parker, articles of Wilder begging for the fight. There is not one single article in which Parker actually says he wants to fight Wilder, as a matter of fact, you'll find interviews of him suggesting Wilder fight AJ rather than saying he himself wants to fight Wilder. Its very easy to make a conclusion on that.

You need to go back and re-discover what actual objective observers said about Wilder Fury 1. Because objective viewers were split right down the middle.

https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-result-outrageous--134428

https://www.boxingscene.com/hopkins-wilder-beat-fury-knock-him-out-rematch--134550

https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-boxing-insiders-weigh-on-scoring--134267

3 articles that clearly show your bias.

Wilder defeating Stiverene for the WBC title is a notable win that Wilder deserves credit for. Breazelle was highly rated and Wilder defeated him in more impressive fashion than AJ. Ortiz and a draw against Fury he deserves credit for. You don't agree because you don't like Wilder, your biased feelings, and hater goggles prevents you from seeing it.

Where did you make reference to “trials”, and 6 months after what trials? All you’ve proved by comparing their amateur records is that AJ achieved far more in a short space of time than Wilder, just as he has done with his pro career.

Wow your argument is so weak if you’re just going on articles - Wilder says a lot of things as we all know. If it’s not followed up by an offer, then it’s all talk. Is it enough for a fighter to say he wants fights, while his powerful promoters send no offers to make it happen? Use some sense.

So your best attempts at research to justify a “draw” is one article from a journalist defending the result in the face of widespread outrage, one quoting Bernard Hopkins who is most definitely not objective, and one article summarising the opinion of exclusively American reporters, including one from PBC who had Wilder winning? LOL..There is a lot of bias in the boxing media and we all know it - you really need to be doing better than this.

This HW era is weak and Brezeale and Stiverne should never be fighting for world titles. I don’t give AJ any praise for beating the likes of Charles Martin or Brezeale, so why should I for Wilder? Oh let me guess, Wilder is less skilled and therefore we need to accommodate him? And I didn’t say he doesn’t deserve credit for Ortiz, and in fact I think I previously noted that he’s the only decent fighter Wilder has beaten on his resume of 40+ fights.

If you want to bring the bar down so low in order to validate Wilder then that’s your problem. You’ve even advocated that we use different standards to assess Wilder when looking at previous performances because he’s “less skilled”, as if being less skilled is some kind of genetic impediment he was born with and can’t do anything about. Take a look at yourself before ******ly calling people biased and haters just because they won’t do the same. The only biased person here is you.

[removed]

The bias is strong with you. Duhaupas had 2 good rounds in the entire fight, many ring side observers felt the corner should have stopped the fight sometime after the 2nd round. That was a pretty easy fight for Wilder, you have revisionist history.

Szpilka it was a competitive fight, but the fight was far less competitive after the fourth. Szpilka only won 2 rounds on 2 score cards and 3 rounds on the other. It was also a fight that saw one of the most vicious knocked outs in history that resulted in Szpilka being taken out in a stretcher.

You see where this is going? Your dislike of Wilder has clouded your ability to judge a fight for what actually happened. A competitive fight turns into a fight where Wilder struggled. A fight where betting odds listed AJ at a -2500 and his opponent a +950, AJ gets knocked out and it's not considered a lost to a nobody because that nobody once fought for a title.

You see, when you're not a blind fan, or a hater of another boxer, its easy to say, Wilder had competitive fights against guys he should have beaten. Then real fans remember that Wilder started boxing at the age of 21 went to the Olympics and turned pro less than a year later. So when I see Wilder struggle and make mistakes against another boxer, its not as bad as AJ getting knocked around by a person he was supposed to handle in Ruiz. Samething goes for Fury and Wallin. Difference between you and I, I'm a fan of all 3.

Blackstarr is a well known Matchroom casual, here is a picture of him at home in his bedroom.

[Blackstarr]

Blackstarr is a well known Matchroom casual, here is a picture of him at home in his bedroom.

So because I like AJ, I’m somehow a Matchroom casual? And what about all the positive things I’ve said about Fury in this thread, and my like for other fighters like Dubois - do these things also make me a Matchroom casual? In fact, just point me to ONE single post I’ve made praising Hearn or Matchroom anywhere on this forum.

Wow you’re an even bigger ****** than I thought you were.