Canelo fights #1 ranked Smith: "cherrypick". Bud fights unranked Brook: "#1 P4P!". Le

[alexnation]

I don't think anyone here said Brook was a good fight for Bud. Brook is garbage and that fight wasn't supposed to demonstrate anything

[Combat Talk Radio]

Mikey v Crawford would have...

woulda/coulda/shoulda.

"At The End Of The Day", Errol Spence has almost 400k buys as his record and Terence Crawford has around 100k-150k buys as his record.

One guy is a PPV draw. The other is not.

The PPV draw in the BUSINESS of boxing gets the bigger split.

Thus - Spence offering 60/40 to Crawford is a fair offer. It's actually higher than I think Crawford deserves, but that's the kind of standup guy Errol is.

Do I want to see them fight? ONLY AFTER Crawford has been proven as more than a flash in the pan. We can only see that proof against an Ugas or a Thurman or a Porter or a Swift.

Hell, at this point, fight Gary Russell and that's good enough, the bar's so damn low with with Crawford, even Russell would be a significant step up because Russell is not damaged, he's not crippled, etc.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I don't think anyone here said Brook was a good fight for Bud. Brook is garbage and that fight wasn't supposed to demonstrate anything

You can see for yourself the posts on NSB saying Floyd should "dare to be great" by fighting Crawford, Crawford's #1P4P for that knockout, Crawford did better than Spence (Despite Brook being COMPLETELY washed in comparison), etc.

Didn't you hear Joe Tessitore night of the fight to Brook? "TAKE YOUR 2 MILLION AND GO HOME!!" Come on.

[Cobra Curry]

woulda/coulda/shoulda.

"At The End Of The Day", Errol Spence has almost 400k buys as his record and Terence Crawford has around 100k-150k buys as his record.

One guy is a PPV draw. The other is not.

The PPV draw in the BUSINESS of boxing gets the bigger split.

Thus - Spence offering 60/40 to Crawford is a fair offer. It's actually higher than I think Crawford deserves, but that's the kind of standup guy Errol is.

Do I want to see them fight? ONLY AFTER Crawford has been proven as more than a flash in the pan. We can only see that proof against an Ugas or a Thurman or a Porter or a Swift.

Hell, at this point, fight Gary Russell and that's good enough, the bar's so damn low with with Crawford, even Russell would be a significant step up because Russell is not damaged, he's not crippled, etc.

A PPV draw doesn't lean on his opponent so heavily. See Anthony Joshua for an example.

A Gary Russell fight would be absolutely pointless.

I honestly can't see why fighting Porter, Garcia or Ugas first is so important. Crawford has a title and has stopped everyone he's faced at 147. Much more than we could say for Mikey Garcia when Spence fought him.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Crawford has a title and has stopped every B and C level

Yes.

That's not enough.

It proves nothing.

Stop or spark out any of the following inside of 9 rounds:

Ugas
Porter
Keef

Without trigger ref, then I will gladly call for a Spence fight. Not before. He hasn't earned it, and yes, he needs to.

[Cobra Curry]

Yes.

That's not enough.

It proves nothing.

Stop or spark out any of the following inside of 9 rounds:

Ugas
Porter
Keef

Without trigger ref, then I will gladly call for a Spence fight. Not before. He hasn't earned it, and yes, he needs to.

None of the guys you've named are champions. Crawford is. If anything they need to earn a shot at him.

Porter is line to do so, will he act on it? Something tells me he's going to "wait and see what Al has for me" instead.

Crawford needs to "earn it" but Wee Mikey didn't? Make it make sense bro.

[Combat Talk Radio]

None of the guys you've named are champions. Crawford is. If anything they need to earn a shot at him.

Porter is line to do so, will he act on it? Something tells me he's going to "wait and see what Al has for me" instead.

Crawford needs to "earn it" but Wee Mikey didn't? Make it make sense bro.

No, Mikey didn't. I didn't support that fight, either.

And I don't care if they're champions or not. I care that Crawford is PROPERLY tested so we can know going in how good he really is by having him fight equivalent competition BEFORE stepping up to the top dog.

Answer this: Would you support, right now, Efe Ajagba to get a crack at Fury? YES/NO?

Spoiler: if your answer is "NO" you're a hypocrite, because that'd be the same thing as putting Crawford in with Spence. Ajagba is UNTESTED, he's been wobbled and hurt. We don't know how good he is yet. He'd have to face a top level guy a few steps down, like Rivas or Luis Ortiz, so we can determine how good he is or isn't. I DON'T CARE ABOUT BIASED RANKINGS FROM THE MEDIA TRYING TO HELP THE GUY OUT. I CARE ABOUT THE RESUME AT THEIR CURRENT WEIGHT CLASS.

Spoiler: If your answer is "YES", you're part of the problem with these 'eye test' fighters getting exposed because they're being pushed too early before they're truly ready, and I don't support it, never will, you won't change my mind.

[Cobra Curry]

No, Mikey didn't. I didn't support that fight, either.

And I don't care if they're champions or not. I care that Crawford is PROPERLY tested so we can know going in how good he really is by having him fight equivalent competition BEFORE stepping up to the top dog.

Answer this: Would you support, right now, Efe Ajagba to get a crack at Fury? YES/NO?

Spoiler: if your answer is "NO" you're a hypocrite, because that'd be the same thing as putting Crawford in with Spence. Ajagba is UNTESTED, he's been wobbled and hurt. We don't know how good he is yet. He'd have to face a top level guy a few steps down, like Rivas or Luis Ortiz, so we can determine how good he is or isn't. I DON'T CARE ABOUT BIASED RANKINGS FROM THE MEDIA TRYING TO HELP THE GUY OUT. I CARE ABOUT THE RESUME AT THEIR CURRENT WEIGHT CLASS.

Spoiler: If your answer is "YES", you're part of the problem with these 'eye test' fighters getting exposed because they're being pushed too early before they're truly ready, and I don't support it, never will, you won't change my mind.

I'm glad you didn't support the Mikey fight, however that fight is the bedrock of the whole "Spence is a PPV draw" argument.

When Duran moved up to fight Leonard, he took some fights to acclimatise but I don't recall him needing to be "tested" in the way you're insisting Crawford must be.
Leonard and Hearns won they're belts, fought a couple of tune ups then fought each other.
Crawford has belt which is proof enough and I mention the guys from the past because Crawford v Spence should've been this generation's version.

Some will attempt to downplay the value of the WBO but ultimately he beat the man who beat the man that everyone still wants to fight, the man who currently holds the WBA title.
Being a champion matters.

Your point around Efe Ajagba is spurious. The guy's a novice. Crawford is a 33 years old multi weight champion and a current champion at 147, it's a bit late to worry about him "being pushed too early".

If Porter pursues his mandatory claim then all well and good, Crawford should fight him. I'm not convinced he'll do that but time will tell. Either way I'd much rather see Crawford v Spence (or Garcia should he pull it off) for all the marbles.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I'm glad you didn't support the Mikey fight, however that fight is the bedrock of the whole "Spence is a PPV draw" argument.

No, it's not because Spence will have THREE PPVs after Danny. The first two drew more than Crawford, Danny's damn sure will, because Danny draws Mexican fans.

Porter drew casual fans.

Mikey drew Mexican fans.

Do you not understand WHY those fights are important? Spence is fighting top draw opponents. That's the difference, bro. Crawford is NOT! And he needs to. Fight a top draw, do to them what you did to the ghost of Kell Brook, NOW you can sell a Spence fight.

Meanwhile you got Crawford who is on record saying Kell Brook was a shadow of himself yet demanding 60%. Why? Why does he deserve that BASED ON HIS 147 RESUME?

When Duran moved up to fight Leonard, he took some fights to acclimatise but I don't recall him needing to be "tested" in the way you're insisting Crawford must be.
Leonard and Hearns won they're belts, fought a couple of tune ups then fought each other.

You're trying to rewrite history. And I'll not allow it.

1980, Tommy Hearns stepped up to fight a very dangerous fighter in Pipino Cuevas.

Cuevas was believed to be the king at welterweight at the time despite not having more than one belt, largely because of his championship win over Ángel Espada in 1976, a very good fighter but not at the very top.

The problem is, Espada's best achievement, winning the WBA strap (that Cuevas later took) was tainted by the fact that Nápoles (then undisputed at welterweight) never lost it in the ring; he was stripped because WBA wouldn't allow him to stay champion and challenge Monzon at middleweight, allowing Espada to win vacant over Clyde Gray (a decent fighter, but not top).

This right here was one of the earliest situations where these letter orgs started to get out of control.

Nápoles, the former WBA Welterweight Champion, would go on to get stopped by Monzon at Middleweight. (Shades of Golovkin/Brook).

My point is, Cuevas was being overrated at the time because he beat a guy that got gifted a title. Sound familiar (Crawford after beating Horn)?

BUT..."At The End Of The Day", Cuevas was highly rated, highly ranked and still a dangerous fighter (Same as Crawford). Nobody questioned that Cuevas was a threat, but people did question how he would perform at the TOP levels.

Tommy Hearns destroys him in two rounds, leaving him face down on the mat at one point, and winning his first welterweight title.

Prior to this, Cuevas had only ever been knocked out one time - in his debut fight, and Castro was never seen again after that win (sketchy) nor does any footage exist of it or even a description of events; we don't even know if the guy's still alive. So chances are that Cuevas took dives for money early in his career (just like Rungvisai was told to for his debut fights).




As far as Leonard, you should be ashamed of yourself.

1979. Leonard had stopped Wilfred Benitez who was arguably just as great as the others - then WBC and The Ring champion (meaning, he was The Guy). The sad irony of this win?

Benitez was lineal champion after a close win against Carlos Palomino in January of 1979.

Palamino became lineal champion after a questionable late fight stoppage against John Stracey in June of 1976.

John Stracey became WBC and The Ring champion after he stopped and retired Jose Nápoles in 1975.

Yes, the same Nápoles that got stopped on the stool at Middleweight never lost his lineal or WBC Welterweight titles.

In summary: Leonard, due to Nápoles bad decision to fight at middleweight, benefitted from getting to fight THE MAN at Welterweight, and beat him soundly, to become The Man.

AND he knocked out Andy Price, a solid B+/A- level fighter and former champion, in the first. Same year.

1980 - Leonard avenges his loss and makes Roberto Duran QUIT, become the first to stop Duran.

So no, Leonard was heavily tested.

Leonard fights Hearns in 1981 - by which time he was already proven, and had already obtained the WBC and The Ring titles. Meaning he was considered the guy. (Shades of Errol Spence now).

Leonard becomes the first guy to beat AND stop Tommy Hearns, taking the WBA title from him.


So no...these two guys didn't just fight "tune-ups". They fought A-levels before they ever met, especially in Leonard's case. AT WELTERWEIGHT.


Tommy Hearns fought a top guy in Pipino Cuevas and destroyed him.

Sugar Ray Leonard fought a top guy in Benitez AND a top guy in Duran and stopped them both.


THAT is how it really went down. Both Leonard AND Hearns were tested before they ever met, and it helped sell the fight tremendously, because nobody really knew who would win it. Both guys were PROVEN legit, not just 'eye test' legit.

[KillaMane26]

That's yo fault paying attention to trolls and casuals.

Well sometimes that's all of our faults tbh.