Why did Mike Tyson duck Ray Mercer?

[BKM-]

More nonsense.

It wasn’t inexcusable at all.

Mike’s last top 10 opponent (and fight) before he went to prison, was his rematch against Ruddock in June, 1991.

His first top 10 opponent after his release was against Bruno in March, 1996.

That’s almost a 5 year period.

He then fought Evander twice, where he was banned after his disgraceful antics in the rematch.

His comeback was against Botha right at the end of the decade in 1999.

Those are the facts.

All of your answers to your questions fall within that time period.

If he hadn’t have gone to prison and spent almost 5 years away from the top 10, you’d have a point.

If he’d have come out of prison and fought regularly for the rest of the decade, you’d have a point.

That didn’t happen.

He missed half of 1991, all of 1992, 1993 and 1994, as well as the first half of 1995.

His first fight back was in the summer of 1995.

Go and look what happened in the division during that period.

He was then obviously brought back slowly as he’d not fought for a long time. He had to have a few tune ups.

He then fought Evander twice and received a ban.

He only fought 6 times in an 8 year period.

So when was he meant to fight all of these guys who he apparently ducked?

Yes, AFTER he’d lost twice to Evander and come back from his ban he took easy fights. I agree with you there. There’s no way he’d have beaten guys like Vitali. And he was purposely steered away from fighting dangerous guys in order to cash in against Lennox. But he doesn’t deserve criticism for ducking guys like Morrison, Bowe, Moorer and Foreman etc.

If he hadn’t have missed almost 5 years of fighting top 10 ranked opposition, then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have fought those fights had they have been viable. And I t’s pretty ****** to label him as being a ducker of top fighters when he fought Evander twice before fighting Lennox, who were the top 2 fighters of his era.

You have no point about Evander Holyfield because they only fought him because they thought he was finished. His performances against Holyfield also do your argument no good, because he showed what a coward he was(headbutting Holyfield himself to get out of the fight, losing heart. And getting himself dq'd in the rematch to get out of it) and only prove my point that Tyson ducked the 90s best.

You want to stick to the facts? Here are the list of opponents he faced during that timeframe:

Mathis Jr.
Seldon
Tillman
Stewart
McNeely
Bruno
Norris
Botha
Ruddock
Douglas
Holyfield

4 of those were before prison(Ruddock was good, Stewart a journeyman, Tillman a bum, Douglas a journeyman who brutally KO'd him)

3 of those were before Holyfield, who he only faced because he thought he was done(and ducked him in 90 by postponing their match with a "rib injury").

Wether he was past his prime or not during this is irrelevant but I just showed you above that nearly all of those fights were when he at the top of the division.

He had time to fight those bums and duck Lewis/Holyfield etc. but never faced all the other dangerous opponents in the 90s who pretty much all posed a threat to him.

I didn't say he should have fought ALL of them. But literally anyone like Foreman, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Mercer etc. were a much better choice than McNeely, Mathis Jr. or Tillman, Stewart, the late 90s/early 00s bum of the month tour.

As far as your argument goes of Tyson needing tune-ups to get back into it. 1-There's a difference between a tune-up vs another contender and a literal unranked bum and 2-If you're one of the highest ranked boxers in the world you should still be facing the best in the world even if you're coming off a loss or layoff.

You atleast admit to some of his ducking but you're still a typical Tyson fanboy at heart. It would be impossible for you to accept that he was not what you think he was. A bully with cowardly traits. The story of a terrified prime Tyson yelling at Don King refusing to fight old George Foreman, that's what defines him.

[hugh grant]

One critisc m of Tyson is he avoided iron chin fighters. Even if they only hit as hard as Paul malignaggi. He liked you to fall once he hit you.

[robertzimmerman]

He didn't spend the entire 90s in prison. He was back in the game in 95. That's another half a decade he could have fought all the dangerous opponents mentioned.

But literally the only good one he faced was Evander Holyfield and that's ONLY because Evander was thought to be washed up and easy pickings.

Tyson was on a bum of the month club tour post-prison. There is no denying that he ducked many fighters.

You know why Tyson gets SO much **** from historians for not fighting the best? It's because he easily COULD HAVE. We can't rag on greats like Marciano, Johnson, Dempsey, Wlad. They simply did not have the option to fight many great fighters, almost nobody great was around.

But Tyson was in the strongest or second strongest era ever and fought almost nobody but Evander and Lewis, both crushed him. Inexcusable.

They all would have crushed him because he would have been beaten before going into the ring. That's why he ducked them.

More nonsense.

It wasn’t inexcusable at all.

Mike’s last top 10 opponent (and fight) before he went to prison, was his rematch against Ruddock in June, 1991.

His first top 10 opponent after his release was against Bruno in March, 1996.

That’s almost a 5 year period.

He then fought Evander twice, where he was banned after his disgraceful antics in the rematch.

His comeback was against Botha right at the end of the decade in 1999.

Those are the facts.

All of your answers to your questions fall within that time period.

If he hadn’t have gone to prison and spent almost 5 years away from the top 10, you’d have a point.

If he’d have come out of prison and fought regularly for the rest of the decade, you’d have a point.

That didn’t happen.

He missed half of 1991, all of 1992, 1993 and 1994, as well as the first half of 1995.

His first fight back was in the summer of 1995.

Go and look what happened in the division during that period.

He was then obviously brought back slowly as he’d not fought for a long time. He had to have a few tune ups.

He then fought Evander twice and received a ban.

He only fought 6 times in an 8 year period.

So when was he meant to fight all of these guys who he apparently ducked?

Yes, AFTER he’d lost twice to Evander and come back from his ban he took easy fights. I agree with you there. There’s no way he’d have beaten guys like Vitali. And he was purposely steered away from fighting dangerous guys in order to cash in against Lennox. But he doesn’t deserve criticism for ducking guys like Morrison, Bowe, Moorer and Foreman etc.

If he hadn’t have missed almost 5 years of fighting top 10 ranked opposition, then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have fought those fights had they have been viable. And I t’s pretty ****** to label him as being a ducker of top fighters when he fought Evander twice before fighting Lennox, who were the top 2 fighters of his era.

[robertzimmerman]

You're speaking nonsense and missing a lot of information. I will just repeat the post I made earlier in this thread. Try to learn if you can:

So Tyson fans don't believe he ducked opponents in the 90s. Lets look a little deeper into his 90s record. He went 9-3.

He lost to Douglas and Holyfield. The only other good fighters(debatable btw) he faced were Ruddock, Bruno and in 2000 against Golota which was a NC. Only the latter 2 were after prison, when Don King clearly paved an easy road for Tyson even with the Holyfield fights which they only accepted because they thought Evander was way past it and an easy win.

Looking at all the scrubs he faced inbetween you're gonna say he couldn't have faced Tua, Ike, Bowe, Wlad & Vitali, Mercer, Byrd, Foreman, Moorer? Who were all good/great fighters, all held a title at some point and almost all of them were a bad stylistic matchup for him.

But Mike was instead content with taking out scrubs like Savarese, Francis, Nielsen, Seldon, Mathis Jr, Norris, Botha etc. Good lord.

Tyson was the biggest name in boxing, everybody wanted to fight him plus this was after Douglas and Holyfield ruined his aura. It wasn't a coincidence. Tyson ducked dangerous opponents. He faced a bunch of scrubs(save Golota who was a known mental case) to get a title shot against the undisputed HW champion FFS.

It was already well known that Tyson ducked a young prime Holyfield and an old Foreman and later Lewis. Why not more? Because the 90s were filled with dangerous HW boxers and Tyson was insecure in and out of the ring.

I haven’t spoken nonsense at all.

What was the point in just reposting your original post?

I don’t need to learn anything.

I lived through the era.

Any talk of him ducking a guy like Bowe is nonsense.

How did Mike duck a young, prime Holyfield?

They were scheduled to fight in 1991 before he was sentenced to prison.

Nobody took Foreman seriously until he’d fought a great fight against Evander. Whilst Mike was in prison, he lost to Tommy and beat Moorer. Mike then lost twice to Evander before Foreman retired.

Lennox was paid step aside money so Mike could fight Evander. At the time, Lennox was on the comeback trail after he’d been stopped by McCall.

If Mike had beaten Evander, I see no reason why we wouldn’t have seen the Lennox fight much earlier than we did. But in 1996 and 1997, there was more demand for a fight with Evander than what there was for Lennox.

[robertzimmerman]

Mike Tyson was bashing Danny Williams up, until he injured his knee 'Williams was all over the place'.

There was a distinct drop in Tyson's performance, soon after he injured his knee 'Which he later needed treatment'.

Mike was done against Lennox, where he was only fighting purely for the cheque.

After that, he was completely shot.

An 80’s-early 90’s version of Mike could literally have beaten Williams and McBride on the same night.

[robertzimmerman]

None of them fighters would of beaten Mike Tyson in the 90's.

They’d have had a good chance against the post prison versions of Mike.

By the end of the decade, Mike was nowhere near the fighter he’d once been.

Even the versions of Mike who fought Ruddock were completely different to the versions who fought Botha etc.

I’d have comfortably picked Vitali over him.

[robertzimmerman]

The idea that Tyson was this perfect fighting machine at 20 and then at 22 he was totally washed up and not half the man he was before is just ludicrous.

As is the idea no other man but Cus D'amato could train him.

He wasn’t a perfect fighting machine, but he was clearly a different fighter when he wasn’t focused.

The results speak for themselves.

He wasn’t as fit and as sharp.

Less movement, where he was hit more.

Has he aged, he fought mostly for the money where he relied on his power to get him out of trouble.

[robertzimmerman]

MIke was in prison as he still was when those guys were relevant and some undefeated .

Tommy Morrison lost the Bentt fight which killed the Tyson mega one .

Nothing shocking if you did research on when those guys had some fights ,Mike came back in 1995 and was fast tracked to Holyfield,why would he have fought some of those guys over a huge pay per view that was the biggest fight then ?

Mercer lost to Holmes in 1992 ,you can troll better then this can’t you ? Ha

Great post.

He hasn’t even allowed for the fact that Mike didn’t have a top level fight for almost 5 years, between 1991-1996.

[QueensburyRules]

You're speaking nonsense and missing a lot of information. I will just repeat the post I made earlier in this thread. Try to learn if you can:

So Tyson fans don't believe he ducked opponents in the 90s. Lets look a little deeper into his 90s record. He went 9-3.

He lost to Douglas and Holyfield. The only other good fighters(debatable btw) he faced were Ruddock, Bruno and in 2000 against Golota which was a NC. Only the latter 2 were after prison, when Don King clearly paved an easy road for Tyson even with the Holyfield fights which they only accepted because they thought Evander was way past it and an easy win.

Looking at all the scrubs he faced inbetween you're gonna say he couldn't have faced Tua, Ike, Bowe, Wlad & Vitali, Mercer, Byrd, Foreman, Moorer? Who were all good/great fighters, all held a title at some point and almost all of them were a bad stylistic matchup for him.

But Mike was instead content with taking out scrubs like Savarese, Francis, Nielsen, Seldon, Mathis Jr, Norris, Botha etc. Good lord.

Tyson was the biggest name in boxing, everybody wanted to fight him plus this was after Douglas and Holyfield ruined his aura. It wasn't a coincidence. Tyson ducked dangerous opponents. He faced a bunch of scrubs(save Golota who was a known mental case) to get a title shot against the undisputed HW champion FFS.

It was already well known that Tyson ducked a young prime Holyfield and an old Foreman and later Lewis. Why not more? Because the 90s were filled with dangerous HW boxers and Tyson was insecure in and out of the ring.

- -Mr Field then known as Holy turned pro the same yr as Mike.

Mike busy setting hvy ring records and purse records while Field literally went life and death with the tubby sawed off Qawi and almost died. Such the first accusation of many to follow of PED use.

What grade they send U dummy back to this year?

[BKM-]

You are being way too harsh here.

His 3 year exodus was huge with regards to who he missed.

In the late 90’s-early 00’s, yes, he was definitely steered away from the top fighters in order to cash out against Lennox. There’s no doubt about that. There’s a reason he fought guys like Julius Francis.

Yes, in the 90’s, he missed lots of guys. But most of the timelines didn’t match up. Again, his 3 year absence was huge. Upon his release, he was then built back up into title contention before fighting Evander. The fight with Evander should have happened in 1991.

If Mike hadn’t have gone to prison, then I’m sure he’d have fought most of those guys. Likewise, if he’d have beaten Evander in 1996 and 1997, I’m sure we’d have seen the Lewis fight earlier amongst others.

You can’t hold it against him for missing guys like Foreman and Bowe when he fought Evander twice, before both of them went on to retire shortly afterwards.

He didn't spend the entire 90s in prison. He was back in the game in 95. That's another half a decade he could have fought all the dangerous opponents mentioned.

But literally the only good one he faced was Evander Holyfield and that's ONLY because Evander was thought to be washed up and easy pickings.

Tyson was on a bum of the month club tour post-prison. There is no denying that he ducked many fighters.

You know why Tyson gets SO much **** from historians for not fighting the best? It's because he easily COULD HAVE. We can't rag on greats like Marciano, Johnson, Dempsey, Wlad. They simply did not have the option to fight many great fighters, almost nobody great was around.

But Tyson was in the strongest or second strongest era ever and fought almost nobody but Evander and Lewis, both crushed him. Inexcusable.

They all would have crushed him because he would have been beaten before going into the ring. That's why he ducked them.