Why did Mike Tyson duck Ray Mercer?

[robertzimmerman]

The top 4 in your list possibly would have beat tyson

I think it all depends on when the fights would have taken place. But I think that Vitali would definitely have beaten him.

[robertzimmerman]

Which means he would have lost to:
Foreman
Mercer
Tua
Vitali
McCall
Ibeabuchi

All of these men have ATG chins, and all of these men were fighting when Tyson was one of the top HW's.

Tyson never dared to face them. They would have taken his shots, survived, dragged him into later rounds and finished him.

He never dared to face them all?

Behave.

[robertzimmerman]

One critisc m of Tyson is he avoided iron chin fighters. Even if they only hit as hard as Paul malignaggi. He liked you to fall once he hit you.

Did he purposely avoid them though?

He fought Evander.

Evander was renowned for having a good chin.

[robertzimmerman]

Post prison he signed a huge $$$$ deal w King to feast on scrubs and Holyfield derailed it. Fact is Mike made a fortune from NOT facing all
comers plus he was/is a notorious head case. Having written this, I would’ve loved to have seen him vs Tua, Mercer, Vitali, Vlad, etc and I wouldn’t count him out against them neither. Even in the 90’s, depressed & unmotivated, Mike could fight!

If that was the case, he’d never have fought Evander. Evander was never considered a scrub, even after the trilogy with Bowe.

[robertzimmerman]

BKM,

You have no point about Evander Holyfield because they only fought him because they thought he was finished. His performances against Holyfield also do your argument no good, because he showed what a coward he was(headbutting Holyfield himself to get out of the fight, losing heart. And getting himself dq'd in the rematch to get out of it) and only prove my point that Tyson ducked the 90s best.

I don’t know how you have the audacity to accuse me of being a biased Tyson fanboy.

If he’d have fought Foreman, who lost to Evander and Tommy, but not fought Evander, you’d be accusing him of fighting a guy in his 40’s and accusing him of ducking Evander. It doesn’t matter what you think. Mike fought Evander twice and Lennox. They were the best 2 fighters of the 90’s along with Bowe.

What he did in the rematch with Evander was disgraceful and it can’t be justified. But we both know that Evander was extremely dirty where he deliberately butted Mike in both fights.

You want to stick to the facts? Here are the list of opponents he faced during that timeframe:

Mathis Jr.
Seldon
Tillman
Stewart
McNeely
Bruno
Norris
Botha
Ruddock
Douglas
Holyfield

4 of those were before prison(Ruddock was good, Stewart a journeyman, Tillman a bum, Douglas a journeyman who brutally KO'd him)

3 of those were before Holyfield, who he only faced because he thought he was done(and ducked him in 90 by postponing their match with a "rib injury").

What you have listed above is absolutely meaningless without applying context. First off, an average fighter fights 3 fights per year. That’s 30 fights across a decade. Some guys would fight 40 times within that period. Yet Mike only fought 13 times in 10 years.

Now break them down, applying both logic and context.

He lost to Douglas right at the start of the decade, in one of the biggest shocks in the history of the sport. Douglas wasn’t a journeyman. He was actually a very competent fighter on his day. He was just terribly undisciplined. Now after that shocking loss, nobody begrudged Mike having 2 easy fights. So you can’t in any way criticise him for fighting Stewart and Tillman after what had happened in Tokyo.

He then fought Ruddock twice, in 2 great fights. Ruddock was seen as a dangerous opponent at the time. Afterwards, he signed to fight Evander, who’d just beaten Foreman. If it hadn’t have been for his trial and his following prison sentence, they would have fought.

Although he spent 3 years in prison, by the time of his release, he hadn’t fought in over 4 years. Because his last pre prison fight had been the rematch with Ruddock in June, 1991, and his first fight after being released was against McNeeley in August, 1995. So who was he going to fight after 4 years of inactivity? He was hardly going to fight anybody in the top 10. After 4 years out, he was always going to have a few tune ups. Anybody would have done the same thing in his position. After 2 easy fights, he then saw an easy opportunity to fight for Bruno’s title before fighting Evander. Now if he’d have beaten Evander, I’m sure we’d have seen other big fights like one against Lewis.

Wether he was past his prime or not during this is irrelevant but I just showed you above that nearly all of those fights were when he at the top of the division.

And I’ve just broken down why he fought who he did and at what point. Bowe was nowhere before Mike went to prison, and he retired after the Golota fights in 1996. Nobody took Foreman serious until he fought Evander. When Mike was in prison, he beat Moorer but lost to Tommy. When Mike was released, a fight with Evander was much bigger. After Mike had lost to Evander, Foreman then retired. So when was he supposed to fight him? Again, a fight may have happened had Mike not gone to prison. But in 1995-1996, nobody was demanding a Foreman fight. Again, apply some context and look back at what happened at the time.

He had time to fight those bums and duck Lewis/Holyfield etc. but never faced all the other dangerous opponents in the 90s who pretty much all posed a threat to him.

Again, he fought 2 tune ups after his devastating loss to Douglas, and he fought 2 tune ups after 4 years of inactivity. He then fought a top guy in Evander. And he ended up fighting a version of Lennox in 2002, who was arguably a better fighter than what we saw in the mid 90’s. Lennox aged well and got better with Manny.

Guys like Bowe and Tommy were dangerous. Of course they were. But if he’d have fought them and not Evander and Lennox, you’d now be saying that he’d ducked them. Again, the window to fight those 2 was very small. They both retired shortly after Mike’s release.

I didn't say he should have fought ALL of them. But literally anyone like Foreman, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Mercer etc. were a much better choice than McNeely, Mathis Jr. or Tillman, Stewart, the late 90s/early 00s bum of the month tour.

Again, you’re talking about a guy who missed half a decade. He had 5 years out, including his ban after the rematch with Evander. You are completely ignorant. There was nothing wrong with fighting Tillman and Stewart after what had happened in Tokyo. And nobody in their right mind is going to come off of a 4 year lay off and pursue a guy like Foreman and Bowe instead of fighting a guy like McNeeley. Have a word with yourself.

As far as your argument goes of Tyson needing tune-ups to get back into it. 1-There's a difference between a tune-up vs another contender and a literal unranked bum and 2-If you're one of the highest ranked boxers in the world you should still be facing the best in the world even if you're coming off a loss or layoff.

Back in the real world, 29 year old fighters who haven’t fought for 4 years don’t pursue the best fighters straight away. And even if they wanted to, their management and promoter wouldn’t allow it for obvious reasons.

You atleast admit to some of his ducking but you're still a typical Tyson fanboy at heart. It would be impossible for you to accept that he was not what you think he was. A bully with cowardly traits. The story of a terrified prime Tyson yelling at Don King refusing to fight old George Foreman, that's what defines him.

I’m not a typical anything.

You’re the one who is being biased and not allowing for circumstances. If he’d have fought 4-5 low level fighters consecutively then you’d have a point. But he didn’t. Again, yes, his management ducked any threat in the late 90’s-early 00’s, in order to cash out against Lennox. Nobody can dispute that. But he didn’t duck anybody prior to his fights with Evander. Lennox was paid step aside money because everyone wanted to see an Evander fight. At the time, Lennox had recently lost to McCall and had struggled with Mercer.

If he hadn’t have missed 5 years of the decade and guys like Tommy and Bowe hadn’t retired early, you’d have a point. But as it stands, you’re just accusing him of ducking any guy who he didn’t fight.

[LoadedWraps]

I guess Mike Tyson is the first boxer in history to peak at 20 and fall off a cliff at 22, no?

And people still think he's the baddest. LMAO. I won't be surprised if he gets sparked by Roy Jones in the pensioner bout despite all the fancy videos he keeps releasing. LMAO.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here but what rants you make to a community of purists will have no impact whatsoever on how the world at large views Tyson, he was a superstar, an icon.

[2Shotz]

Post prison he signed a huge $$$$ deal w King to feast on scrubs and Holyfield derailed it. Fact is Mike made a fortune from NOT facing all
comers plus he was/is a notorious head case. Having written this, I would’ve loved to have seen him vs Tua, Mercer, Vitali, Vlad, etc and I wouldn’t count him out against them neither. Even in the 90’s, depressed & unmotivated, Mike could fight!

[REDEEMER]

You have no point about Evander Holyfield because they only fought him because they thought he was finished. His performances against Holyfield also do your argument no good, because he showed what a coward he was(headbutting Holyfield himself to get out of the fight, losing heart. And getting himself dq'd in the rematch to get out of it) and only prove my point that Tyson ducked the 90s best.

You want to stick to the facts? Here are the list of opponents he faced during that timeframe:

Mathis Jr.
Seldon
Tillman
Stewart
McNeely
Bruno
Norris
Botha
Ruddock
Douglas
Holyfield

4 of those were before prison(Ruddock was good, Stewart a journeyman, Tillman a bum, Douglas a journeyman who brutally KO'd him)

3 of those were before Holyfield, who he only faced because he thought he was done(and ducked him in 90 by postponing their match with a "rib injury").

Wether he was past his prime or not during this is irrelevant but I just showed you above that nearly all of those fights were when he at the top of the division.

He had time to fight those bums and duck Lewis/Holyfield etc. but never faced all the other dangerous opponents in the 90s who pretty much all posed a threat to him.

I didn't say he should have fought ALL of them. But literally anyone like Foreman, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Mercer etc. were a much better choice than McNeely, Mathis Jr. or Tillman, Stewart, the late 90s/early 00s bum of the month tour.

As far as your argument goes of Tyson needing tune-ups to get back into it. 1-There's a difference between a tune-up vs another contender and a literal unranked bum and 2-If you're one of the highest ranked boxers in the world you should still be facing the best in the world even if you're coming off a loss or layoff.

You atleast admit to some of his ducking but you're still a typical Tyson fanboy at heart. It would be impossible for you to accept that he was not what you think he was. A bully with cowardly traits. The story of a terrified prime Tyson yelling at Don King refusing to fight old George Foreman, that's what defines him.

The Holyfield fight never happened because Lou Duva priced Holyfield out first ,he complicated things .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-723b62ebb4f1/

[hugh grant]

Which means he would have lost to:
Foreman
Mercer
Tua
Vitali
McCall
Ibeabuchi

All of these men have ATG chins, and all of these men were fighting when Tyson was one of the top HW's.

Tyson never dared to face them. They would have taken his shots, survived, dragged him into later rounds and finished him.

The top 4 in your list possibly would have beat tyson

[BKM-]

One critisc m of Tyson is he avoided iron chin fighters. Even if they only hit as hard as Paul malignaggi. He liked you to fall once he hit you.

Which means he would have lost to:
Foreman
Mercer
Tua
Vitali
McCall
Ibeabuchi

All of these men have ATG chins, and all of these men were fighting when Tyson was one of the top HW's.

Tyson never dared to face them. They would have taken his shots, survived, dragged him into later rounds and finished him.