Dempsey, Benny Leonard, Johnson etc would get destroyed today!!

[aboutfkntime]

I dont see it, the competition was farmboy and street toughs, boxing in those day was really a toughman competition.

Their footwork, kit of punches power to weight ratio etc was so far away from the machines of the modern eras .

All good cheers.

such head-to-head comparisons should be just that... head-to-head

Johnson vs Usyk

it is flawed logic to insist that such a mythical matchup must happen in this era... according to your logic, this era will be tomorrow's "yesterday"... full of irrelevant no-hopers who could not compete "tomorrow"

a true head-to-head matchup places Johnson/Usyk in any era... (or in both)... and assumes that all of the variables are equal

it is obviously the only fair/accurate method

today, Johnson would train/prepare exactly like Usyk... and honestly, this is not really a fair/even comparison... we KNOW what Johnson could do against his peers because we saw the result of his lengthy successful career... but we do not know what Usyk can do because he is largely untested, and just a pup in terms of professional development compared to Johnson

I would not bet a dollar on him beating a absolute legend like Johnson... you would need to match Johnson up with someone better than Usyk, someone proven like Holyfield... even then, good luck... Usyk's entire claim-to-fame relates to 2x fights, period

would Usyk have developed the same back in the day... with no welfare/income to support a lengthy amateur career... when life was much harder... and guys fought much more often, against all comers/styles

the historians rank boxing correctly, and they rank that way for a reason... you compare boxers to their peers... folks should pay more attention to the experts rather than take things on face value... which never tells the whole story

[Rusty Tromboni]

Why would past fighters fight under current standards!?

It makes more sense to make current fighters fight under pay conditions.


Leonard vs Lomachenko might actually be a good fight. Battle for the Ukraine between the *** and Christian.

Dempsey would smash Betterbiev.


Johnson was a bum even in his own era.

[Roadblock]

such head-to-head comparisons should be just that... head-to-head

Johnson vs Usyk

it is flawed logic to insist that such a mythical matchup must happen in this era... according to your logic, this era will be tomorrow's "yesterday"... full of irrelevant no-hopers who could not compete "tomorrow"

a true head-to-head matchup places Johnson/Usyk in any era... (or in both)... and assumes that all of the variables are equal

it is obviously the only fair/accurate method

today, Johnson would train/prepare exactly like Usyk... and honestly, this is not really a fair/even comparison... we KNOW what Johnson could do against his peers because we saw the result of his lengthy successful career... but we do not know what Usyk can do because he is largely untested, and just a pup in terms of professional development compared to Johnson

I would not bet a dollar on him beating a absolute legend like Johnson... you would need to match Johnson up with someone better than Usyk, someone proven like Holyfield... even then, good luck... Usyk's entire claim-to-fame relates to 2x fights, period

would Usyk have developed the same back in the day... with no welfare/income to support a lengthy amateur career... when life was much harder... and guys fought much more often, against all comers/styles

the historians rank boxing correctly, and they rank that way for a reason... you compare boxers to their peers... folks should pay more attention to the experts rather than take things on face value... which never tells the whole story

No this era wont erode like they did or becomes obsolete over time, because the science of fighting is very close to peak, take any sport and the gains begin with big jumps, records being broken every Olympic games, but seeing as humans have limitations of physics things begin to near its peak and from tumbling records it became years to gain a fraction.

I dont understand how you cannot reason that boxing has evolved, that it has not stood still in time, not just getting them ready, but education from the cradle to the bell ringing in a title fight the schooling its so far advanced from their eras.

[QueensburyRules]

This is in response to thebjack Johnson thread yes they Would all get smashed in the modern era.


Sorry but the guys wouldnt even be top 20 today.

- -When U be outta U Barney BigBoys?

[aboutfkntime]

No this era wont erode like they did or becomes obsolete over time, because the science of fighting is very close to peak, take any sport and the gains begin with big jumps, records being broken every Olympic games, but seeing as humans have limitations of physics things begin to near its peak and from tumbling records it became years to gain a fraction.

I dont understand how you cannot reason that boxing has evolved, that it has not stood still in time, not just getting them ready, but education from the cradle to the bell ringing in a title fight the schooling its so far advanced from their eras.

I don't understand how you cannot see that men/fighters have not evolved

I think they are softer now, and more privileged... in a mythical matchup, 2-fight Usyk would actually have to get in there and beat Johnson... who was a beast...

they are both men, they both put their pants on the same way... and in the same era, would both be training/fighting/developing under the same conditions

if Johnson fought today... these supposed advantages that you apply to Usyk, would also apply to Johnson... he would have evolved/adapted to the current era

same in reverse with Usyk... but, he would be the exact same guy... could Usyk have survived in a much tougher era, fighting far more often, under far less favorable conditions?

I would back the proven great... over the guy who does not even have half a handful of top-level fights under his belt

[Marchegiano]

No this era wont erode like they did or becomes obsolete over time, because the science of fighting is very close to peak, take any sport and the gains begin with big jumps, records being broken every Olympic games, but seeing as humans have limitations of physics things begin to near its peak and from tumbling records it became years to gain a fraction.

I dont understand how you cannot reason that boxing has evolved, that it has not stood still in time, not just getting them ready, but education from the cradle to the bell ringing in a title fight the schooling its so far advanced from their eras.

The arrogance of this one


Erode? You're either ignorant or just ******. Erode? Try society changes over time son.

Do you think it's a happy accident Queen Vic's Diamond year saw a BE champion?

How about Tommy Burns just happening to come around the time Canada was poised to be the economic powerhouse of the future?

How about how Primo and Schmelling just happen to be champions during the rise of fascism in europe?

Before all that Irish champions reigned during an era when America was dealing with a massive Irish influx....just coincidence though and has nothing to do with how the fighters fought huh? It's not like Irish people wanted to see Irish fight in the Irish manner and whoop the English on free and fair land...

Erode no, there is no erosion and there are no new techniques. There are cycles of techniques that fit the society watching the fights. That's all. Society will change again, boxing will change with it, and the arrogant/ignorant children will call is superior rather than different.



How many mother ****ers duck in an era when ducking is seen as weak? Like no one, best to study guard in their era given that is what they use and they use it because that's what their fans want to see not because they're too ****** or incapable of moving out of they way.


Do you really think there is a new punch to be invented in 2020? They're punches, they're simple. Even the ancient boxers know modern techniques because it's simple and the modernization version of boxing has more rules and so less, not more, applicable techniques.



Jack Johnson himself rose up just coincidentally during the "New ******" movement (apologize to any that offends, that was the name of the movement by those who practiced it, to JJ, JJ was a new ******. To white people not so much.

Nope, JJ rises during the NN movement because JJ is a part of the society that exists in his time. He fights like it as well.

[cfang]

There is one fighter that did cross eras in a big way and thats foreman. Imagine hed have not come back and its the early 90s everyone would be saying 'foreman would have no chance against todays guys', but he did come back and was competitive 20 years older and much fatter, this says a lot!!

George was a fighter from two eras prior and he won many fights and the title.

[soul_survivor]

Well lets look at this beyond trolling for instance.

let's say Dempsey came in, weighing around 190lb, I think he would be av ery effective cruiserweight brawler. The division is usually weak and I can imagine him picking up a few belts. His combination speed and power would take out most cruisers I can think of.

Jack Johnson weighed between 200-210 lb in his prime heavyweight years and although that is some way away from the weight of guys like Fury, AJ, Whyte and co but not too far off where Wilder has weighed in the past. The difference is obviously height and reach but skill, technical ability and speed can often makeu p for that and Johnson had some of that going for him.

[Roadblock]

The arrogance of this one


Erode? You're either ignorant or just ******. Erode? Try society changes over time son.

Do you think it's a happy accident Queen Vic's Diamond year saw a BE champion?

How about Tommy Burns just happening to come around the time Canada was poised to be the economic powerhouse of the future?

How about how Primo and Schmelling just happen to be champions during the rise of fascism in europe?

Before all that Irish champions reigned during an era when America was dealing with a massive Irish influx....just coincidence though and has nothing to do with how the fighters fought huh? It's not like Irish people wanted to see Irish fight in the Irish manner and whoop the English on free and fair land...

Erode no, there is no erosion and there are no new techniques. There are cycles of techniques that fit the society watching the fights. That's all. Society will change again, boxing will change with it, and the arrogant/ignorant children will call is superior rather than different.



How many mother ****ers duck in an era when ducking is seen as weak? Like no one, best to study guard in their era given that is what they use and they use it because that's what their fans want to see not because they're too ****** or incapable of moving out of they way.


Do you really think there is a new punch to be invented in 2020? They're punches, they're simple. Even the ancient boxers know modern techniques because it's simple and the modernization version of boxing has more rules and so less, not more, applicable techniques.



Jack Johnson himself rose up just coincidentally during the "New ******" movement (apologize to any that offends, that was the name of the movement by those who practiced it, to JJ, JJ was a new ******. To white people not so much.

Nope, JJ rises during the NN movement because JJ is a part of the society that exists in his time. He fights like it as well.

I said the styles and technique have eroded, just like any sport you care to name, science has come a long way this century, it has nothing to do with the person just what he can do in the context of sport over time.

I dont even know how you got on some morel high horse with the old champs and greats, they had their day they were the best of their times thats not in question, its no insult to say their ways have improved greatly after many years of intense competition and many great champions to come out it to learn from.