Bread man claims on Twitter that Martinez criminally ducked GGG lol

[JohnCastellanos]

I think regardless of the split the plan was always to fight Golovkin at 160 in 2017. I keep seeing folk mention the split as 60/40 or 55/45 but every article I saw where those numbers were referenced included the qualifier 'usually', which I found kinda curious, so I went to see what the WBC regs said:

https://wbcboxing.com/wbceng/Rules/WBCRulesandRegulationsJanuary2014.pdf

So in fact there was no 40% or 45% for Golovkin, in fact it's not even clear that he was guaranteed a regular mandatory split depending how you read the regulations and certainly no more than that. The WBC never had to make decision because they were never asked, and nor did Canelo or Oscar ever make the claim that Golovkin or Loeffler were trying to force the purse bid.

My take is quite simple, Oscar was just operating according to the plan he'd laid out in early 2015.



All the rest, the back and forth, was just smoke. Least that's the way I tend to see it. The reasons he gives for waiting are legitimate, and it ain't unusual for a big fight to marinate that long so there ain't real reason to say they were trying to 'age' Golovkin and certainly not that they were waiting for him to show vulnerabilities (cos GGG was still looking fairly unstoppable at the time the plan was made), but it also won't have escaped their notice that time was on Canelo's side.

Golovkins team was most likely playing hardball just like Lou dibella did for DErachenko vs Canelo for the IBF.

According to your article I believe Tom Loefflor wanted it to go to purse bid.

2.17 Division of Proceeds in a Purse Offer. The net purse offer (after deduction of all sanction fees payable to the WBC hereunder) shall be divided as follows:
(a) 70% for the champion and 30% for the challenger in title bouts; and
(b) 50% to each contender in the case of vacant titles or elimination bouts;
provided, however, that the WBC Board of Governors, may by a majority vote, authorize a modification of the division of purse offer proceeds between boxers in a purse offer in unusual or special cases, such as consideration of outstanding marketing value of one of the boxers, as the WBC shall determine in its sole discretion. The modification of the split shall be limited to 60-40% and 55-45%, except in the most exceptional circumstances, in which the split may be modified to 50-50%.
2.18 Boxers’ Obligations Regarding Purse Offer Bids. The interested boxers must accept the winning bid and participate in the bout, as the WBC may deem that any boxer who does not
5

agree to participate in a bout on the terms of the winning purse offer has forfeited his privilege as a WBC champion or challenger. For a champion to be deemed to forfeit his title as a result, the WBC Board of Governors must confirm s

[Citizen Koba]

Not you specifically, there’s others. Good you clarify it tho. In the end, I think we did a great job of keeping it real and exposing the nonsense. There’s ppl that just came on hear to insult the arguments and those ppl basically plead no contest in my opinion. As for the clowns that claimed I was lying they proved to be complete morons who deserve to be blocked. Any last thoughts KOBA?

Last thoughts? Same I always say I guess. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and we all got our favourites, but lm always gonna respect dudes more if they're consistent with both their praise and criticism of fighters irrespective of how much they like em.

As much as I can I try to judge all fighters by the same standards I apply to my favourites, and regardless of anything respect all the dudes who earn a living between the ropes.

[Shadoww702]

I couldn’t care less, what p1sses me off is gerbils like you and the other imbecile that literally crawl up a fighters arsehole, bag other fighters, call them cowards yet won’t or can’t see their fighters flaws, clenelo is a certified PED cheat, he has taken on opponents that shouldn’t have been in the ring with him aswell, yet you’re willing to defend anything he does, you’re a disgrace, you’re not a boxing fan, you’re a fighter fan with no logic

WTF???

****** ***! U the ones CRYING

[Shadoww702]

I couldn’t care less, what p1sses me off is gerbils like you and the other imbecile that literally crawl up a fighters arsehole, bag other fighters, call them cowards yet won’t or can’t see their fighters flaws, clenelo is a certified PED cheat, he has taken on opponents that shouldn’t have been in the ring with him aswell, yet you’re willing to defend anything he does, you’re a disgrace, you’re not a boxing fan, you’re a fighter fan with no logic

As always a punk won't give facts

[Shadoww702]

I couldn’t care less, what p1sses me off is gerbils like you and the other imbecile that literally crawl up a fighters arsehole, bag other fighters, call them cowards yet won’t or can’t see their fighters flaws, clenelo is a certified PED cheat, he has taken on opponents that shouldn’t have been in the ring with him aswell, yet you’re willing to defend anything he does, you’re a disgrace, you’re not a boxing fan, you’re a fighter fan with no logic

U must be Pac fan.... Scurred of needles

[siablo14]

Why did Dougie get brought up then???

Because Dougie works at the Ring and seems to be a friend/associate of Breadman. Breadman is always tagging Dougie on Twitter when he is discussing fantasy matchups.

[siablo14]

I think regardless of the split the plan was always to fight Golovkin at 160 in 2017. I keep seeing folk mention the split as 60/40 or 55/45 but every article I saw where those numbers were referenced included the qualifier 'usually', which I found kinda curious, so I went to see what the WBC regs said:

https://wbcboxing.com/wbceng/Rules/WBCRulesandRegulationsJanuary2014.pdf

So in fact there was no 40% or 45% for Golovkin, in fact it's not even clear that he was guaranteed a regular mandatory split depending how you read the regulations and certainly no more than that. The WBC never had to make decision because they were never asked, and nor did Canelo or Oscar ever make the claim that Golovkin or Loeffler were trying to force the purse bid.

My take is quite simple, Oscar was just operating according to the plan he'd laid out in early 2015.



All the rest, the back and forth, was just smoke. Least that's the way I tend to see it. The reasons he gives for waiting are legitimate, and it ain't unusual for a big fight to marinate that long so there ain't real reason to say they were trying to 'age' Golovkin and certainly not that they were waiting for him to show vulnerabilities (cos GGG was still looking fairly unstoppable at the time the plan was made), but it also won't have escaped their notice that time was on Canelo's side.

I get that but if the WBC had to force the issue, what is the purse split they usually mandate?

[Citizen Koba]

I get that but if the WBC had to force the issue, what is the purse split they usually mandate?

40 - 45% is what I've seen reported although I'm not clear where that information comes from because there doesn't seem to be enough examples of it ever happening to establish a norm. (see EDIT below for what I've dug up on this)

Maybe someone could help me with that cos I'm looking through a list of WBC champions and have so far found no other instances where an incumbent fought his interim. Not entirely surprising there ain't many since usually a dude is made interim when they ain't really expecting the incumbent to defend, but I would have thought I'd find one or two at least to check the veracity of the split figure given?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WBC_world_champions

Be interesting to see what split they give Whyte if he ever gets to face the WBC incumbent though.


Regardless it's always done on a case by case according to the 2014 rules and he disparity in drawing power is likely to have resulted in a split more favourable to Canelo.

Way I see it as a combination of things, plan was to make the fight in 17 anyway so they had little interest in exploring whether the fight could be made for their target split in 16. An extra year or more when making a big fight is pretty much the norm now anyways. What information we do have doesn't state or even suggest there was and major dispute over split between the teams, in fact negotiations appear to have barely got going when the WBC dropped the hammer.

It's speculative, but if Oscar did want the fight earlier they could have simply waited to see what decision the WBC made on the split and then vacated if they didn't think it was reasonable surely? That would seem to be the more logical way of doing things I think - what would they have lost by waiting for the decision and negotiating up to that point to see if an agreement couldn't be reached? Since they were willing to drop the belt anyway neither the WBC or GGG had the leverage regardless.



EDIT: Ah, OK I think I got it. I think the various scribes who provided the 55/45 split figure were running with the WBAs rules, Sec D9, not the WBCs.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/WBA-Rules-adopted-in-Bulgaria-6-11-15-Updated-2019-1.pdf

9.Disbursements of Bids Proceeds. Disbursements of Bids Proceeds. The boxers’ Purse shall be distributed as follows:

a.75% to the Champion and 25% to the Challenger.

b.75% to the Super Champion and 25% to the Challenger, even if it is the Champion.

c.50% to each contenderin the case of vacant titles or elimination bouts.

d.55% to the Champion in Recess and 45% to the Interim Champion, in the event of such a bout.

The WBC have no such rule however, nor is there any reason to think they would apply it (I ain't sure I recall the WBA ever applying it either for FWIW, interim vs Champ fights are almost unheard of it seems). Far as the WBCs rules go an interim champion has no higher status than a normal mandatory as best I can tell, and possibly not even that when it come to purses although the rukles ain't quite clear.

So the 45/55 is from the wrong sanctioning org.... not sure quite who's responsible for spreading that little bit of misinformation or whether it was a sinple error or some kinda obfuscation.

[Shadoww702]

40 - 45% is what I've seen reported although I'm not clear where that information comes from because there doesn't seem to be enough examples of it ever happening to establish a norm. (see EDIT below for what I've dug up on this)

Maybe someone could help me with that cos I'm looking through a list of WBC champions and have so far found no other instances where an incumbent fought his interim. Not entirely surprising there ain't many since usually a dude is made interim when they ain't really expecting the incumbent to defend, but I would have thought I'd find one or two at least to check the veracity of the split figure given?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WBC_world_champions

Be interesting to see what split they give Whyte if he ever gets to face the WBC incumbent though.


Regardless it's always done on a case by case according to the 2014 rules and he disparity in drawing power is likely to have resulted in a split more favourable to Canelo.

Way I see it as a combination of things, plan was to make the fight in 17 anyway so they had little interest in exploring whether the fight could be made for their target split in 16. An extra year or more when making a big fight is pretty much the norm now anyways. What information we do have doesn't state or even suggest there was and major dispute over split between the teams, in fact negotiations appear to have barely got going when the WBC dropped the hammer.

It's speculative, but if Oscar did want the fight earlier they could have simply waited to see what decision the WBC made on the split and then vacated if they didn't think it was reasonable surely? That would seem to be the more logical way of doing things I think - what would they have lost by waiting for the decision and negotiating up to that point to see if an agreement couldn't be reached? Since they were willing to drop the belt anyway neither the WBC or GGG had the leverage regardless.



EDIT: Ah, OK I think I got it. I think the various scribes who provided the 55/45 split figure were running with the WBAs rules, Sec D9, not the WBCs.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/WBA-Rules-adopted-in-Bulgaria-6-11-15-Updated-2019-1.pdf

The WBC have no such rule however, nor is there any reason to think they would apply it (I ain't sure I recall the WBA ever applying it either for FWIW, interim vs Champ fights are almost unheard of it seems). Far as the WBCs rules go an interim champion has no higher status than a normal mandatory as best I can tell, and possibly not even that when it come to purses although the rukles ain't quite clear.

So the 45/55 is from the wrong sanctioning org.... not sure quite who's responsible for spreading that little bit of misinformation or whether it was a sinple error or some kinda obfuscation.

The split was 55/45

Google it and ESPN posted it numerous times. The WBC changed the rules after that

[Citizen Koba]

The split was 55/45

Google it and ESPN posted it numerous times. The WBC changed the rules after that

Nah, I've looked into it some. The WBC rules I quoted earlier were from Jan '14. If you read the various articles about it they all say the interim / champ split is' 'usually' or 'generally: 45/55 (at least the ones I've seen) but never provide a source or refences. That's what made my curious in the first place. The WBC never made a ruling on what the split would be in this case cos it never got that far, but the certainly weren't bound to give GGG any more than a regular mando split under the rules current at that time. I'm not sure who came up with the 45% thing be I'd be curious to find out.

Ive been trying to establish what the interim split was under the WBC rules prior to 2014 but without success so far, so I would be interested in seeing that if anyone got some links?

I've also tried to find some fights where a WBC interim faced the champion so I could check the purses and figure it that way, but I've had no success so far. Do you know of any?