As it stands who had a better career Fury or Bowe

[Marchegiano]

Not arguing just asking.
You determine who's better based purely off accomplishments no other BS right?
Fighter A is a three weight (wba super champ)
Fighter B is a two weight (lineal + wbc champ)
Would it be fair for me to think you'd go with Fighter B? As the better current champ in said division?

Not exactly, I just think before you get into detailed breakdowns there are qualifiers for levels.

I'll make it simple and if you want to read the rest you can:

Official titles
Unofficial titles
Statistics
Resume

--

Maybe if it was Super and WBC vs a single IBF or WBO, but, Lineal itself is contentious, unofficial, and seems to be what you make of it on a personal level.

The lineal claim would have a play to it.

I'll use an example, I recognize Tyson Fury's lineal claim but that's only because I believe others have had weaker claims and gotten away with it. Wlad being one of them. That said, it is a weak claim in all honesty and doesn't mean half of what his WBC means to me.

Because Fury has the WBC and never lost the other three in the ring I see him as the HW kingpin. Inversely at LWW you have Jose with two and Josh with two

These two are harder for me, WBC does mean the most but the WBA is a very close second. The WBC has roots way back to the beginning of boxing and are responsible for the sport going from ******** dens to a mainstream sport. The WBA came right after the WBC as the first and original challenger to WBC authority....neither were called WBC or WBA back then but, you know, this **** is getting long so for simplicity I called them WBC/A

Both have an original title, both have one of the WBA's fragmented official body titles; IBF and WBO respectively.

That's a good place for a lineal to come into play, imo. Just before you get into Taylor having a better resume, which I reckon he does, you point out Taylor is the Ring mag champ, or if it's the case, lineal, or whatever extra bull that can put one over the other.

After that, basic as **** wins and losses, punch counts, KOs, you know, statistics. How many times a guy's been down, how often do they actually get hit. Stuff like that.

After the official titles, the unofficial titles, the stats, then finally I'll care about the names on records.

I respect the professionals, authorities, authors, the computer, then my own interpretation in that order.

[PRINCEKOOL]

I don`t think any 90s heavyweight would beat Tyson Fury.

Mike Tyson, Foreman and Holyfield would be the smalest heavyweights Fury has ever fought. It would be laughable.

David Haye would of derailed Fury's career 'Fury has a lot of weight on him, but he is not solid mass'. If Tyson Fury was solid mass he would be 240 + pounds 'None of these super-heavyweights these days accept Joshua are solid, their size is in some ways is a Illusion'.

[Ritz Kola]

Not exactly, I just think before you get into detailed breakdowns there are qualifiers for levels.

I'll make it simple and if you want to read the rest you can:

Official titles
Unofficial titles
Statistics
Resume

--

Maybe if it was Super and WBC vs a single IBF or WBO, but, Lineal itself is contentious, unofficial, and seems to be what you make of it on a personal level.

The lineal claim would have a play to it.

I'll use an example, I recognize Tyson Fury's lineal claim but that's only because I believe others have had weaker claims and gotten away with it. Wlad being one of them. That said, it is a weak claim in all honesty and doesn't mean half of what his WBC means to me.

Because Fury has the WBC and never lost the other three in the ring I see him as the HW kingpin. Inversely at LWW you have Jose with two and Josh with two

These two are harder for me, WBC does mean the most but the WBA is a very close second. The WBC has roots way back to the beginning of boxing and are responsible for the sport going from ******** dens to a mainstream sport. The WBA came right after the WBC as the first and original challenger to WBC authority....neither were called WBC or WBA back then but, you know, this **** is getting long so for simplicity I called them WBC/A

Both have an original title, both have one of the WBA's fragmented official body titles; IBF and WBO respectively.

That's a good place for a lineal to come into play, imo. Just before you get into Taylor having a better resume, which I reckon he does, you point out Taylor is the Ring mag champ, or if it's the case, lineal, or whatever extra bull that can put one over the other.

After that, basic as **** wins and losses, punch counts, KOs, you know, statistics. How many times a guy's been down, how often do they actually get hit. Stuff like that.

After the official titles, the unofficial titles, the stats, then finally I'll care about the names on records.

I respect the professionals, authorities, authors, the computer, then my own interpretation in that order.

Respectable breakdown. I read it all I'm not a troll I love intelligent boxing talk.
One correction: WBA came first and is the oldest sanctioning body. WBC came second and is the most respected.
I like your breakdown because it's a take that's void of as much personal opinion as possible. I wouldn't switch it for my own qualifier- but both have overlap and similarities.
You didn't ask but in no order:
Record (W/L/D/KO%)
Resume (Names)
Accomplishments (Titles Won)
Performances (Was it a close fight? Or an easy won? Did he struggle and win or Cruise before getting stopped? etc)
I have an honorable mentions category of "context" that I apply the same way you apply unofficial titles when there's a standoff.

[Marchegiano]

Respectable breakdown. I read it all I'm not a troll I love intelligent boxing talk.
One correction: WBA came first and is the oldest sanctioning body. WBC came second and is the most respected.
I like your breakdown because it's a take that's void of as much personal opinion as possible. I wouldn't switch it for my own qualifier- but both have overlap and similarities.
You didn't ask but in no order:
Record (W/L/D/KO%)
Resume (Names)
Accomplishments (Titles Won)
Performances (Was it a close fight? Or an easy won? Did he struggle and win or Cruise before getting stopped? etc)
I have an honorable mentions category of "context" that I apply the same way you apply unofficial titles when there's a standoff.

Really is no wrong way I don't think. Some folks get up in arms but whatever a man uses to judge is really his own prerogative. I respect it.


On WBC/A, you're not wrong but I am misunderstood. Let me just explain what I meant as quickly as possible:

WBA is the oldest modern sanctioning body

WBC is comprised of older, pre-modern, bodies such as the IBU, NSC, and NYSAC.

The National Sporting Club begins in the 1890s England and itself has roots back to the 1790s in the form of the Pugilistic Society, later they would become the BBBoC. BBBoC is a regional affiliate of the WBC today.

International Boxing Union - 1910 - France - They are the original world sanctioning body. They mostly controlled Europe though and had little effect in the States. Today they are the EBU, a regional affiliate of the WBC.

New York State Athletic Commission - 1920 - NYC - Like their name suggests this is the controlling arm of NY and the region. They did not sanction fights for the vast majority of America, they actually gained some control in Europe though and by way of having the biggest city in the states and being able to bring in Euros to NY, NYSAC became the early mecca of boxing. Today they are still the NYSAC but the sanctioning entity is the WBC, NYSAC is just a commission now like Nevada or any other, they do not sanction. Their sanctioning arm is the WBC.


1921 - National Boxing Association is formed to challenge the NYSAC for US control. They challenged and they won.


By the 60s(?) the NBA changed their name to the WBA to better reflect their actual level of control. They had won, all the other mentioned bodies were falling apart.

The NSC, IBU, and NYSAC came together, there's actually like three more but these three are the main figures and let's make this quick, as a longshot effort to challenge the WBA back with the newly formed WBC. The NSC and IBU would take on regional roles with their champions gaining an automatic top ten world position with the WBC, NYSAC simply gave up their sanctioning arm to become the WBC.


So, yes the WBA is the oldest body, no the WBA does not have the oldest roots. Or another way to say it is like this; they say lineal is the title Sullivan had....except Sully never heard of lineal in his life. National Sporting Club, Police Gazette, he knows those titles and the surviving entity that used to be the NSC is the WBC. The WBA can not make any claims like that.


I'm not telling you that means you have to respect the WBC more. I personally do a lot of flopping on that one.

On one hand you do have honest to god deep roots. On the other hand you have the entity that kicked off modern sanctioning bodies.


If it wasn't for ****s wrecking Europe and WBA kicking ass in the states there would be no WBC.

If it wasn't for NSC, IBU, NYSAC, there would be no WBA.

They are about equal imo as far as importance to history and such. I went with WBC because they are compilation of olders but really WBA being the most prestigious or oldest is not something I'd argue against. I just think those roots the WBC has ought to be respected as well.


Then there's the ten point must and 12 rounders and stuff like that. The WBC/A have a lot of back and forth.


The IBF/WBO....really I only respect them because the WBA/C told me to. They're just angry ends of the WBA that split and really didn't do much to improve anything. The WBA/C have done much more for the sport imo.

[removed]

David Haye would of derailed Fury's career 'Fury has a lot of weight on him, but he is not solid mass'. If Tyson Fury was solid mass he would be 240 + pounds 'None of these super-heavyweights these days accept Joshua are solid, their size is in some ways is a Illusion'.

I would've given Haye a decent shot at beating Fury at the time when they were supposed to fight. 60/40 fight to Tyson imo.

[Ritz Kola]

Really is no wrong way I don't think. Some folks get up in arms but whatever a man uses to judge is really his own prerogative. I respect it.


On WBC/A, you're not wrong but I am misunderstood. Let me just explain what I meant as quickly as possible:

WBA is the oldest modern sanctioning body

WBC is comprised of older, pre-modern, bodies such as the IBU, NSC, and NYSAC.

The National Sporting Club begins in the 1890s England and itself has roots back to the 1790s in the form of the Pugilistic Society, later they would become the BBBoC. BBBoC is a regional affiliate of the WBC today.

International Boxing Union - 1910 - France - They are the original world sanctioning body. They mostly controlled Europe though and had little effect in the States. Today they are the EBU, a regional affiliate of the WBC.

New York State Athletic Commission - 1920 - NYC - Like their name suggests this is the controlling arm of NY and the region. They did not sanction fights for the vast majority of America, they actually gained some control in Europe though and by way of having the biggest city in the states and being able to bring in Euros to NY, NYSAC became the early mecca of boxing. Today they are still the NYSAC but the sanctioning entity is the WBC, NYSAC is just a commission now like Nevada or any other, they do not sanction. Their sanctioning arm is the WBC.


1921 - National Boxing Association is formed to challenge the NYSAC for US control. They challenged and they won.


By the 60s(?) the NBA changed their name to the WBA to better reflect their actual level of control. They had won, all the other mentioned bodies were falling apart.

The NSC, IBU, and NYSAC came together, there's actually like three more but these three are the main figures and let's make this quick, as a longshot effort to challenge the WBA back with the newly formed WBC. The NSC and IBU would take on regional roles with their champions gaining an automatic top ten world position with the WBC, NYSAC simply gave up their sanctioning arm to become the WBC.


So, yes the WBA is the oldest body, no the WBA does not have the oldest roots. Or another way to say it is like this; they say lineal is the title Sullivan had....except Sully never heard of lineal in his life. National Sporting Club, Police Gazette, he knows those titles and the surviving entity that used to be the NSC is the WBC. The WBA can not make any claims like that.


I'm not telling you that means you have to respect the WBC more. I personally do a lot of flopping on that one.

On one hand you do have honest to god deep roots. On the other hand you have the entity that kicked off modern sanctioning bodies.


If it wasn't for ****s wrecking Europe and WBA kicking ass in the states there would be no WBC.

If it wasn't for NSC, IBU, NYSAC, there would be no WBA.

They are about equal imo as far as importance to history and such. I went with WBC because they are compilation of olders but really WBA being the most prestigious or oldest is not something I'd argue against. I just think those roots the WBC has ought to be respected as well.


Then there's the ten point must and 12 rounders and stuff like that. The WBC/A have a lot of back and forth.


The IBF/WBO....really I only respect them because the WBA/C told me to. They're just angry ends of the WBA that split and really didn't do much to improve anything. The WBA/C have done much more for the sport imo.

Damn thats great history I wasn't aware of before. I got something interesting to dig into now

[Removed Now]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[Removed Now]

I would've given Haye a decent shot at beating Fury at the time when they were supposed to fight. 60/40 fight to Tyson imo.

What year was this ??

[QueensburyRules]

If fury retired right now would he have a better career then Rid**** Bowe??

Comment below.

- -Already does.

What grade U in now?

[IronDanHamza]

Fury has a win over a “fraud” and a 40 year old that he had to dope up to beat...........but he’s now being pushed as an atg just like loma.


But bu it ain’t about race.

You are hands down the most feminine poster on this forum.

Just look at the state of you, man.