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now all of the sudden money means legacy to these guys when it comes to ward v. golovkin...lol
any other time money don't mean jack ****....you've got to love it
any other time money don't mean jack ****....you've got to love it
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cong**** on getting money for beating up Curtis stevens...who lost to jesse Brinkley and marcos primera(d level club fighters)
cong**** on getting money for beating up Daniel geale..whom lil cotto blasted out in 4 rounds
cong**** on the dom wade win...dom wade is top notch...Comment
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why is this still a topic tho?Comment
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Just remember OP that people only hate GGG because the guy is white or eastern euro.
Even then so, his haters will claim they can't be racist because hes not 100% white, hes half Korean or whatever, he just looks white.
Look at a lot of the people they claim are better than him or that he ducked.
Their resumes and legacies will never match GGGs. The only guy? Canelo.
And that's why Canelo groupies hate GGG. Hes white. Hes a theat. And deep down they know GGG took at least one win from Canelo.
That's why when you talk about GGG they're act like ****ing children. You cant have two good guys, there can only be one. That's a child's mentality.
But you've seen this place. There are pieces of **** and societies outcasts everywhere. These people dont represent the majority.Comment
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I feel like you’re making excuses for your man crush (again).
When a Ward/ggg fight was a real possibility (not when Ward was injured, not when Ward was having legal problems), team ggg insisted the fight could only happen at 164. This was after approving 168 for both Froch and Chavez Jr. They knew Ward would be hard pressed to make 168 and 164 was out of the question. They could act like they were interested in a Ward fight but not actually fight him. After the fight fell apart, Ward moved up a weight class to fight the perceived killer and number 1 light heavy. Kovalev and ggg drug the number 3 or 4 welter up not one but two weight classes for a bout. So who was looking to take tough fights and who wasn’t?Comment
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Saying something like 154-168...still means you have to work out all the terms in a fight against a fighter from those weights lol...like venue, purse, weight etc...why people harp on that for GGG just exposes their bias imho.
If he had faced Lara at 157 then people would say he should gone to 154...if he faced Lara at 154 then people would say he should have faced Canelo at 154 etc etc...people bothered by that 154-168 line are just not very reasonable...sorry to say...but just really exposes people on the GGG issue.
Also your posts show why I am glad GGG got paid well at the end of his career, and also why it matters...people like you try to go way overboard to slight him...so for as great as he has been...for just being some little half-asian half white dude from BFE who was an ATG amateur at MW and then had an incredible ATG pro career at MW.
Having never really been hurt and never dropped in any fight that we know of, by the age of 38...with many people saying he beat Canelo, in his prime, twice...with the only real debatable fight so far in his career being his last one at age 37 vs a very good fighter, where he still probably won...I mean how can any reasonable person possibly hate on that.
GGG made his name because of what he could do in the ring...Ward made a big part of his name because of where he was from and the protections and advantages that afforded him.
If GGG was grinding out controversial decisions in Karaganda Kazhakstan I would look at him with a big side-eye...if Ward was from Burkina Faso and KOing everyone in sight and was just clearly a great fighter with great performances and results, no real controversies (except some not in his favor), then who could hate on that?Comment
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Man I honestly just call things like I see them...I get no personal satisfaction from saying 'good' things about GGG or 'bad' things about Ward...I just look at the tea leaves and put them together and form my opinions.
To your last point, I would say that Ward going up to fight Kov, I give him credit for that...he did take 3 tune ups before Kovalev...no shame in that really...but it is something to point out...I think the cards in that first fight were really the saddest/worst I've seen live in a big fight...and I only add that to say that maybe Ward took the Kov fight knowing that all he needed to do was go 12 rounds and he would be given the W.
It certainly seemed that was the case anyway...and I just mention that to say that in that situation, fights become easier to take, when you know that you will win as long as you go 12 rounds...I have to factor stuff like that in as far as giving someone credit for 'taking risks' etc.
Also calling Brook the 3 or 4 welter lol...I mean you're just exposing your bias man, come on...he was pretty clearly the top 2 WW (max 3 but I think most were putting him above Thurman at that point - also Brook physically was definitely the most ready to move up in weight for a fight like that of all the WW - absent maybe Spence...but Brook was the bigger guy vs Spence as Spence admitted I believe).
But Brook had just beat Porter and I think a fresh version of him vs Spence would have been a great fight...also, Brook only came about because Eubank backed out and Hearn needed to save the date...if Brook boxed a bit smarter and had been a little more durable (though a lot of those durability issues surely came from the weight class jump and taking on such a great fighter/big puncher in GGG), I think he could have presented a good test for GGG as well.
As far as someone who could box move and take a shot...we know that if you stand in front of GGG, well you are likely to lose...so Brook's style - if he used his advantages of youth speed athleticism and quickness more - could have actually been a decent test for GGG...certainly much moreso than Canelo fighting Khan...and remember man Canelo PICKED that fight...GGG kind of had to take what he could get with Brook...those things matter.
But yeah the Brook fight was kind of a best available solution after Eubank pulled out...I don't think it's very fair to judge GGG based on that one....not an ideal fight and certainly in GGG's favor going in...but Brook presented some decent challenges in that fight.
Do you have a source for the 164 demand? If true...you could argue it was GGG negotiating...he knew his role as the B side vs Froch and Chavez Jr and was willing to give them what they wanted to get the big money fight, and probably an easier fight than vs Ward as well...Ward was probably a tougher fight, so why not try and negotiate as fair terms as possible, especially if the overall money pot would not be that great?
You could also argue that a request for 164 for Ward was a way to not want the fight...I have no real opinion on that as I don't have all the facts at that time...and also I think GGG had other better options than Ward at that time so I think Ward would have needed to realize he was the B-side in that negotiation for it to work, and I mean Ward would never do that lol...he always liked to be in control even when he was the B side (Froch and Bute and even Stevenson examples of this).
Tbh I have no real opinion about GGG-Ward and who was really wanting it in the later stages...tbh, I think GGG would have fought more or less anyone...but I think his team knew Ward was a high risk/low monetary reward fight so I doubt they were too keen on it once GGG became more well known.
I think Ward was just using GGG's name in the later stages by acting like he wanted a fight with him...I think he knew GGG had other/better options at that time...and Ward was trying to generate his own publicity by 'calling out' a star who at that time was probably a top 5 'star' in boxing...just was a business move imo...but I don't think he had much intention of really making that fight happen.Comment
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Btw - if you really want a view of why I view Ward's word the way I do...the post below from me is a good example of it...a bit lengthy but I tried to make it as concise as possible:
If any reasonable person reads that situation from Ward/Bute...the only thing I would expect to hear is "OK, yeah Ward does not look good here" or some type of similar response.As to why I don't really believe Ward about anything - how do you feel about these comments/this situation from Ward about Lucian Bute.
Video at 1:00 says Ward wants Bute after Super Six tourney...or that winner (which was Ward) should face Bute after the tourney ends:
This is no mixing of words here...it is clear what he is saying.
Now fastforward just 2 fights (7 months I think) later...Ward beats Abraham and Froch.
'Sadly, it doesn't seem like Bute or boxing fans will get the fight they want. Ward showed little interest in Bute at his postfight media conference after his masterpiece against Froch. Sure, Ward earned the right to do what he wants after such a tough road in the Super Six, but it's still disappointing to hear.
"To be perfectly honest, no disrespect to Bute and his team, but they've sat back and they've fought B-level and C-level guys and he did what he was supposed to do," said Ward, failing to grasp that Bute wasn't invited to the Super Six and had no A-level opponents available to him. "He stopped them and he's gotten them out of there. But he's just been sitting back, waiting, while we've been fighting for the past two and a half years against top-level competition.
"So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now," Ward said. Going up to light heavyweight for the right fight -- not to campaign up there, but for the right fight -- is an option. So we've just got to sit back and see what makes sense. I think I earned the right to pick the right fight for the right price."
I mention that last comment about going up to LHW for a reason btw...if Ward had said 'I'm willing to face any LHW in the world too'...I would have taken it the same way as GGG/his team's 154-168 comment...basically meaning, under the right conditions, if it makes sense for us (money, weight, venue etc) we would take the fight...I'm mentioning this to point out again that imho I am not 'picking on Ward' or 'giving GGG a pass'...I am just judging them from their own comments.
"That's a tremendous fight for Carl because I know Carl doesn't like Bute," Ward said. "To be perfectly honest, I think Bute has to beat somebody. I'm just gonna be frank with you: He has to beat somebody, an A-level guy, to get a shot. We'll sit back and talk as a team, but off the top of my head, he has to beat somebody. You can't sit back and just take your time while everyone else is working hard and you come in and get the same pay that everyone else gets. It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision."
The last part there added in here to show that Ward has always been very conscious of his fight plan...he doesn't seem like he just says 'yes' to a fight right away...he has to really iron out every detail and be in control of basically everything before he fights someone.
GGG seems like he more or less deals fair with people...and knows his role when he is B side or the A side...Ward always thought he was the A-side (money-wise) when he often times wasn't.
And then Ward says this, a few months later, after Bute signed his fight with Froch:
"I was disappointed," Ward said. "Bute and his promoter were screaming and yelling that I was ducking them, then they go and make a two-fight deal with Froch where if he loses, he takes Froch back to Canada? I didn't understand that. I was never ducking him, I just wanted to build up the fight. I was coming off two years of grueling fights and I felt he needed to fight someone. But ducking him? Come on. He wants belts, I have three belts over here if he wants to fight for a belt."
So yeah this is why I view Ward the way I do...and I view GGG more or less like most other fighters, who more or less do what they say.
If people try to spin something like that in his favor...I mean I can't take that seriously man...I am fair with fighters based on what I see from them.
GGG has some stuff people can get on him for...though I think a lot of the stuff people try to get on him for is way off base...they could say he should have pressed more for the Charlo fight when that was mandated by the WBC...but a lot of the criticism GGG gets is just way over the top imho.
Anyways hope you could get through all that and see where I'm coming from a bit.Comment
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I knew ward had skills way back, All Terrain Fighter. Still he did fight in Oakland a lot. Beating Froch and Kessler were good wins but he didn’t ever blow people out at the top level. He should have lost to Kovalev the first time. I was rooting for Ward as him coming back was the exciting narrative. Like the KD was worth a point for Kovalev at first but then worked against him every round he couldn’t finish him off. He did clinch a lot. He only has 32 fights. His career isn’t close to all world. I know this is supposed to be a GGG bashing thread. But Ward prolly got overpaid if u crunch the numbers. If careers were more like his boxing would suffer. He coulda challenged Nelo @175lbs after the Kovalev fight. He’s an awkward commentator. He’s just nobodies favourite. There’s more hate for GGG than all the emotion there is for Ward. That’s perspective.Comment
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