I just want to see how people feel about these comments

[Boxing_1013]

From Ward in 2013:

"As for me and Golovkin, look at my body of work. I'll fight anyone out there. But look at his body of work and look at mine. There is no comparison. I fought the last three years with no break. I've been in grind mode. Let him build up his resume, get a body of work first, then we can talk."

For the record, Ward's next 4 fights after those comments were vs Rodriguez Brand Smith and Barrera.

In any event I don't really see how anyone can spin those comments from Ward into him wanting the fight with GGG, and then GGG somehow not wanting it at or around that time.

We know HBO reportedly sat Ward and GGG down in 2013 and GGG said he wanted the fight and Ward said he needed more time with his shoulder and promoter issues.

I'm hoping everyone will just say 'ok looks like Ward didn't want the fight with GGG around 2013.' But I'm too cynical to think some will admit to that 😁😁

[Sadiqkingofko]

Didn't Golovkin ask for the fight to be at 164???

I could be wrong it was like a decade ago

[Boxing_1013]

Didn't Golovkin ask for the fight to be at 164???

I could be wrong it was like a decade ago

At that time I don't think weight or any real particulars were sorted out...think it was more of a 'do you want to fight this guy' thing from HBO and at that time I dont think Ward was too keen, from his own comments.

I've heard that rumor about GGG wanting the Ward fight at 164 (maybe a couple years after this) but I've never really seen a source on that.

If true...and if GGG (as reported) was willing to face Froch and Chavez Jr at 168...well some could say that was GGG knowing his role as the A side and B side in those negotiations.

Or you could say that was a way for him and his team to say they didn't really want that fight...could have a similar view really with Ward's later contract offer to GGG during the Lemieux fight...could view it as legit or as attention seeking.

Would be interested in seeing a source on the 164 situation and when that would have been from.

Thanks for the reply

[W1LL]

If you look at each's body of work, as Andre Ward implored, you will see that Ward moved up and fought "the best"/most hyped, while Gennady Golovkin never did. Ward's resume speaks for itself, he left no doubts. Top 10 Super Middleweight of all-time, no doubt.

Anyone who cannot see that Golovkin is a seriously limited, one-dimensional fighter at this point is beyond help. If you cannot see GGG for what he is then there's no point you watching boxing, because you clearly don't know chit. Andre Ward was close to a complete fighter, he would have absolutely outclassed and battered Golovkin, similar to Floyd Mayweather vs. Arturo Gatti.

[QueensburyRules]

From Ward in 2013:

"As for me and Golovkin, look at my body of work. I'll fight anyone out there. But look at his body of work and look at mine. There is no comparison. I fought the last three years with no break. I've been in grind mode. Let him build up his resume, get a body of work first, then we can talk."

For the record, Ward's next 4 fights after those comments were vs Rodriguez Brand Smith and Barrera.

In any event I don't really see how anyone can spin those comments from Ward into him wanting the fight with GGG, and then GGG somehow not wanting it at or around that time.

We know HBO reportedly sat Ward and GGG down in 2013 and GGG said he wanted the fight and Ward said he needed more time with his shoulder and promoter issues.

I'm hoping everyone will just say 'ok looks like Ward didn't want the fight with GGG around 2013.' But I'm too cynical to think some will admit to that 😁😁

- -Wart = canker on boxing.

[Earl-Hickey]

Not the biggest Ward fan, he's a but of a weirdo, reckon he has some dodgy fetishes, but he tested himself and beat the best in his division.

Golovkin couldn't get the job done against the smaller canelo, considering the unstoppable beast he was hyped as, he never really lived up to it. Goes down as a bit of a can crusher.

Ward on the other hand moved up a division and ended the myth of Kovalev, is the only person to convincingly beat Froch, has a good win over a prime Kessler, these names are all well above anyone GGG beat.

Basically Ward>Golovkin and it's not really debatable.

[Citizen Koba]

From Ward in 2013:

"As for me and Golovkin, look at my body of work. I'll fight anyone out there. But look at his body of work and look at mine. There is no comparison. I fought the last three years with no break. I've been in grind mode. Let him build up his resume, get a body of work first, then we can talk."

For the record, Ward's next 4 fights after those comments were vs Rodriguez Brand Smith and Barrera.

In any event I don't really see how anyone can spin those comments from Ward into him wanting the fight with GGG, and then GGG somehow not wanting it at or around that time.

We know HBO reportedly sat Ward and GGG down in 2013 and GGG said he wanted the fight and Ward said he needed more time with his shoulder and promoter issues.

I'm hoping everyone will just say 'ok looks like Ward didn't want the fight with GGG around 2013.' But I'm too cynical to think some will admit to that ����

I think it's probably better phrased that Ward just wasn't interested rather than that he 'didn't want it'. He had other stuff on his plate and the Golovkin fight just wasn't compelling at that time.

What we can do - at least IMO - is dispell the myth, or narrative, that GGG was steered away from good fights throughout his US career. We can look at opponents that GGG tried to fight or agreed to fight or but fell through for whatever reason, Piog, Lee, Froch, Ward, and hopefully put that to bed, although I'm quite sure the more cynical minded will claim that despite appearing to agree to said fights he may not have followed through with 'em. That's not to say that he would have won or beaten these opponents, merely that he was willing to fight 'em.

The narrative that seems to have been developed in some quarters is that Golovkin's less than stellar resume is evidence that he's not very good, or at least not as good as sold. Working back from his failure to land top level opponents earlier in his career comes the leap of illogic that it follows that he or his handlers didn't try to land such opponents, and from there another tenuous leap that it therefore follows they didn't try to land such opponents cos they knew he wasn't very good and might come unstuck. Voila. 'Proof' that GGGs resume means he was never really that good!

Hopefully evidence of the fights he did try to make - or made and fell through - should put that to bed, but of course, it won't. I mean, sure, who knows... maybe he would have lost against Pirog or Froch, we just don't know, but the idea that he avoided tough fights because he thought he might lose is simply not supported by evidence, and in fact requires far more assumptions than simply taking the face value evidence (occams razor).

[Boxing_1013]

If you look at each's body of work, as Andre Ward implored, you will see that Ward moved up and fought "the best"/most hyped, while Gennady Golovkin never did. Ward's resume speaks for itself, he left no doubts. Top 10 Super Middleweight of all-time, no doubt.

Anyone who cannot see that Golovkin is a seriously limited, one-dimensional fighter at this point is beyond help. If you cannot see GGG for what he is then there's no point you watching boxing, because you clearly don't know chit. Andre Ward was close to a complete fighter, he would have absolutely outclassed and battered Golovkin, similar to Floyd Mayweather vs. Arturo Gatti.

Lol, well thank you for your opinion my friend.

Imho, I personally don't see how anyone objective doesn't see Ward as a manufactured/protected fighter who got by on limited top level boxing ability because he was always the home fighter and got preferential treatment from judges/refs.

I think he was a really tough, smart fighter though...so I take nothing away from him really, and I don't say any of that criticism with any real malice.

I just don't really see how an objective minded person can view Ward as a great talent and GGG as being the overhyped one...just doesn't check out to me.

Based on official accolades, Ward would clearly be a top 10 SMW of all-time, I would imagine even top 5 really...but that is an incredibly weak division all-time lol...GGG would clearly be a top 10 MW all-time, and that is a much deeper and more historic division.

Not that any of that really matters, but I thought that was an odd comment...bragging about being a top 10 SMW all-time? lol...it has only been around for for like 30 years now anyway, since like mid 80s...you could have left that one out bro.

Ward only moved up once to really fight anyone, and that was vs Kov btw...I give him credit for taking those fights, but he did have a clear loss in one and should have at least been penalized in the 2nd fight...it is what it is though...but yeah he even made Dawson come down to 168 to face him, so that wasn't moving up at all...your narrative that you want to be true doesn't necessarily jive with the facts my friend.

Your comparison to Floyd-Gatti honestly shows how limited your own boxing IQ is as well...Ward was not a slick type fighter like Floyd at all...and GGG is levels above what Gatti was...if Ward-GGG fought in a neutral setting (refs/judges etc) in their primes, who knows how it would have really gone...Ward could have won an 8-4 decision, GGG could have done the same or possibly hurt Ward...who knows what would have happened.

Ward honestly really struggled to separate boxing-wise against anyone he faced that was B-level or above...GGG made a living destroying guys like that...but Ward was the bigger man, and Ward to his credit was hard to look good against as well, and could often muck up rounds and make it hard for his opponent to score clear rounds against him as well...often times in his fights vs good opponents you would have a considerable amount of 50/50 pick em rounds which a fair person should more or less split.

I would say that Ward's performance vs Kovalev (in both fights really) really dispels your rather poor logical analysis about a GGG-Ward fight in comparing it to Mayweather Gatti...Kovalev is more or less a bigger, perhaps in some ways better, but in some ways clearly worse, version of GGG...Kovalev showed he was essentially the better boxer vs Ward, landing more punches than Ward in each fight (126-116) and (95-80).

Mayweather outlanded and outclassed Gatti to the tune of 168-41 in their fight...unfortunately, imho, you are a perfect example of someone who wants to try and act like he knows more than he does about something, and bases your narrative on what you want to be true without real regard for the facts.

Btw, and again thanks for your reply....my thread was really in reference to this comment from Ward in 2013...where he basically said he didn't want the GGG fight...it kind of dispels the notion that GGG 'ducked' the fight...but don't let the facts get in the way of your stories my friend, you can tell yourself whatever you want

"Let him build up his resume, get a body of work first, then we can talk."

[Shadoww702]

One is a FOR sure HOFaner while the other one is only getting in buying tickets like the fans do.

I doubt the writer of this page even has a clue which one that will be...

[Boxing_1013]

Not the biggest Ward fan, he's a but of a weirdo, reckon he has some dodgy fetishes, but he tested himself and beat the best in his division.

Golovkin couldn't get the job done against the smaller canelo, considering the unstoppable beast he was hyped as, he never really lived up to it. Goes down as a bit of a can crusher.

Ward on the other hand moved up a division and ended the myth of Kovalev, is the only person to convincingly beat Froch, has a good win over a prime Kessler, these names are all well above anyone GGG beat.

Basically Ward>Golovkin and it's not really debatable.

Eh I guess that's a fair opinion to have man but honestly I don't really see the angle on that one...you have to go with what you actually saw in all those fights when personally judging their levels...and not just go with some official results which as we know often favor the hometown fighter.

I give Ward credit for his stepping up to Kovalev, but he got beat in the first fight, anyone who knows anything knows that...and the 2nd fight he was really very fortunate to win that one/not at least get penalized...so I don't really view his performances there as that positive.

If he was beating Kov clean I would give him full credit...and I agree that GGG could have done more vs Canelo to further his reputation...he could have done more vs Jacobs or even SD as well...to be fair he may have aged a bit from his best in all those fights, and I think imho the only real debatable fight he had in that 4 fight stretch was vs SD which I still feel he got to 6 or 7 rounds in.

But yeah he could have hurt or stopped Canelo and that would have furthered his reputation...but I think an objective look at what he did in the ring would leave someone saying he was a great fighter and had a great career...fair to debate exactly where he ranks all-time at MW or something for example, but he is definitely in that convo.

So yeah it really goes down to what you actually saw from those guys in their fights, and then how you rate those opponents at those times.

I think Ward was beating Kessler, but that win was marred by the headbutts etc, which take away from that win...I thought he beat Froch clean but he also coasted a bit in that fight and I had it 7-5 just as two of the judges had it when I scored it.

So yeah I never really saw great boxing skills from Ward against anyone he faced from Bika level all the up to Kovalev...he looked pretty good vs Froch but I don't see how anyone can see he really dominated that fight, certainly not in rounds won.

Ward was a tough smart fighter but he wasn't the slickest really so he was able to be touched up a bit and he didn't have the great offense either...he was just a long day in there, with a lot of mucked up close rounds basically any time he faced a good fighter.

Thanks for your opinion, though for the record, I was specifically referring to Ward's comment there in 2013 where he said he didn't really want to face GGG...it kind of dispels the notion that Ward wanted to fight GGG, or that GGG didn't want to (certainly at that time).

I like some good boxing talk though so no problem with trying to twist that a bit and turn it into another convo...thanks again for your opinions.