Jermall Charlo continues to get punked out

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  • daggum
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    #171
    Originally posted by Scipio2009
    How many stars launched before their late 20's though?

    Canelo and Tyson are basically it, off the top of my head. To say Charlo is way behind schedule is a bit much.

    In terms of options for Charlo on the outside, he's got Derevyanchenko, he's got Eubank Jr, and he's got Matvey Korobov (if he can simply pick up the win), plus the eventual WBC/WBA/IBF 154lb champion (as long as it's not his brother or Erislandy Lara, same trainer and all).

    4 marketable fights to work with, plus the possibility that Canelo comes calling to dance.

    At least another year and a half, where Jermall Charlo is the only middleweight in the general sports conversation, outside of Canelo (unless Canelo really does go ahead with fighting in Japan or Saudi Arabia; the general sports world hardly mentions any of the other DAZN 160/168lbers, unless mentioning Golovkin as cannon fodder for Canelo).

    It's on Jermall to keep winning, but time is on his side
    didn't that just happen? charlo said no.

    another year and a half and then what happens? ta-da super star! this sounds just like the tank davis is young doe argument. magically by turning down the best fights but continuing to win they will become superstars. its not ducking...its growing their core brand proposition!

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    • Scipio2009
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      #172
      Originally posted by Cobra Curry
      I'd say that most stars are launched early to mid 20's. Oscar, Roy, Floyd, Sugar Ray, Hearns... maybe things are changing because the guys fight less regularly nowadays?

      Eubank Jr. tanked on PPV here in his own country so I'm surprised you view him as marketable in the States. Korobov's a good fighter but hardly what you'd call box office while 'Chenko is best known for his exploits on DAZN which in your words lacks visibility...all for the possibility that Canelo comes calling?
      Oscar was 27/28 when the PPV money really started to move, Floyd was 29 before the Oscar PPV and Hatton PPV launched him, and Roy had the Toney PPV at 26, but didn't return to stick on PPV until he was 31 (can add Ray Leonard to the list of stars before their late 20s).

      Still, beyond that, they're selling The Jermall Charlo Show.

      -I don't know what happened in the UK (what was the reach, what did the marketing dollars look like, how good the opponent was, etc) but in Chris Eubank Jr, you've got a fighter who's the son of boxing royalty (British boxing, but the shine up will be done in stellar fashion), who comes to fight each time out, and may actually be a world level fighter in his own right (can pantomime the Chavez Jr story, the Chavez was far better known here than Eubank, and Eubank Jr is a far more dedicated and possibly better fighter than Chavez Jr).

      -Korobov isn't a box office superstar, but the world saw him take the first fight, and account for himself beyond well. Sell how competitive the fight was, possibly in Houston, and you've got an event.

      -Derevyenchenko simply needs a win where folks are going to actually see it (Showtime/FOX/ESPN); look good in the win, and the rest of the build basically writes itself.

      Lastly, Canelo's going to need an opponent that draws the interest from the general press to talk about him, soon before the market forgets about him like folks forgot about Klitschko when he went to Europe.

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      • Cobra Curry
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        #173
        Originally posted by Scipio2009
        Oscar was 27/28 when the PPV money really started to move, Floyd was 29 before the Oscar PPV and Hatton PPV launched him, and Roy had the Toney PPV at 26, but didn't return to stick on PPV until he was 31 (can add Ray Leonard to the list of stars before their late 20s).

        Still, beyond that, they're selling The Jermall Charlo Show.

        -I don't know what happened in the UK (what was the reach, what did the marketing dollars look like, how good the opponent was, etc) but in Chris Eubank Jr, you've got a fighter who's the son of boxing royalty (British boxing, but the shine up will be done in stellar fashion), who comes to fight each time out, and may actually be a world level fighter in his own right (can pantomime the Chavez Jr story, the Chavez was far better known here than Eubank, and Eubank Jr is a far more dedicated and possibly better fighter than Chavez Jr).

        -Korobov isn't a box office superstar, but the world saw him take the first fight, and account for himself beyond well. Sell how competitive the fight was, possibly in Houston, and you've got an event.

        -Derevyenchenko simply needs a win where folks are going to actually see it (Showtime/FOX/ESPN); look good in the win, and the rest of the build basically writes itself.

        Lastly, Canelo's going to need an opponent that draws the interest from the general press to talk about him, soon before the market forgets about him like folks forgot about Klitschko when he went to Europe.
        Point taken on Oscar et al.
        However if we look at what how they built up to that point, you'd have to say that they were much further along at this point, Oscar and Floyd with multiple weight class championships while Roy fought more regularly with a string of spectacular KO's and was established himself as the best in his division. With all due respect, your list of opponents doesn't equate to the same thing, especially on Charlo's current schedule of 2 fights a year.

        As for Canelo falling out of relevancy...I certainly wouldn't shed any tears but with his fanbase and the money he generates I just don't see it.

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        • Curt Henning
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          #174
          Originally posted by daggum
          didn't that just happen? charlo said no.

          another year and a half and then what happens? ta-da super star! this sounds just like the tank davis is young doe argument. magically by turning down the best fights but continuing to win they will become superstars. its not ducking...its growing their core brand proposition!
          the point is, even if charlo did say "no", its not a fight that cant be revisted in a couple of years or even 3....in fact by then, if charlo keeps winning, his position will have strenghtened

          its not a situation where one guy is 27 and the other is 35...or one guy is 25 and the other is 32...theyre both right at the same age

          these guys could both fight at 32 and it would still be fine.....as others have mentioned charlo is betting on himself....in a fashion similar to wilder....difference being wilder has a lucrative opponent before the big prize(AJ or canelo) in fury...

          they have to keep winning...but both could stand to make way more down the line

          look at wilder....even with the fury fight....wilder wanted an immediate rematch....arum stalled it and admitted that....it stands to be a bigger fight now than an immediate rematch would have been

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          • Scipio2009
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            #175
            Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
            Why wouldn't I believe what Andrade is saying? Hearn let Campbell go fight Lomachenko on ESPN.

            Andy Ruiz was able to go to DAZN and is now free to go back to PBC. And Hearn is STILL throwing offers his way.

            Jermall Charlo doesn't want a career high purse to face Andrade, on DAZN or on Showtime. He just wants easy fights and easy paydays.

            As a fan I can't support that and neither should you.

            History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.

            If it really was career-high money, Eddie Hearn wouldn't hide the number so viscerally.

            Campbell was the opponent, Andy Ruiz Jr was the opponent (on short notice no less); context matters.

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            • ShoulderRoll
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              #176
              Originally posted by Scipio2009
              History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.

              If it really was career-high money, Eddie Hearn wouldn't hide the number so viscerally.

              Campbell was the opponent, Andy Ruiz Jr was the opponent (on short notice no less); context matters.
              Andrade is the opponent too. And he is willing to go to Showtime for one fight.

              But Charlo still doesn't want that smoke.

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              • Scipio2009
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                #177
                Originally posted by daggum
                didn't that just happen? charlo said no.

                another year and a half and then what happens? ta-da super star! this sounds just like the tank davis is young doe argument. magically by turning down the best fights but continuing to win they will become superstars. its not ducking...its growing their core brand proposition!
                Pause for a moment.

                In the timeline of history, when would this offer have come from a "sniffling without a cold" Oscar De La Hoya?

                HBO folds, DAZN rolls up with $365m for 11 dates, and bum Rocky Fielding is date #1, with Hearn able to keep Daniel Jacobs in the fold (with Jacobs winning the IBF belt on his out fight of the HBO deal) by securing Canelo as the first fight of his DAZN deal.

                Believe what you want

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                • Scipio2009
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                  #178
                  Originally posted by Cobra Curry
                  Point taken on Oscar et al.
                  However if we look at what how they built up to that point, you'd have to say that they were much further along at this point, Oscar and Floyd with multiple weight class championships while Roy fought more regularly with a string of spectacular KO's and was established himself as the best in his division. With all due respect, your list of opponents doesn't equate to the same thing, especially on Charlo's current schedule of 2 fights a year.

                  As for Canelo falling out of relevancy...I certainly wouldn't shed any tears but with his fanbase and the money he generates I just don't see it.
                  Opponent quality can definitely be argued, but that's not the aim here; the viewing public will continue to see the build to interesting fights for Charlo, and as he continues to perform (assuming) the audience will grow with him.

                  Deontay Wilder is 10 defenses into his run as champion, folks weren't really with him at the start, but they've finally started to come around to his starpower. Time is time.

                  Wladimir Klitschko fell to basic US irrelevancy, made a damn fortune in Europe, and didn't shed a tear for any of it.

                  With his guaranteed deal with DAZN and guaranteed deal in Mexico (wouldn't shock me if his total guaranteed money per fight is now $40m-$45m); I doubt he gives a care about relevacy at this point.

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                  • Scipio2009
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                    #179
                    Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
                    Andrade is the opponent too. And he is willing to go to Showtime for one fight.

                    But Charlo still doesn't want that smoke.
                    Believe what you want; that's not what Hearn has said

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                    • ShoulderRoll
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                      #180
                      Originally posted by Scipio2009
                      Believe what you want; that's not what Hearn has said
                      It's what Andrade said. I'll believe him.

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