Comments Thread For: Rey Vargas, Julio Cesar Martinez Cleared by WBC Following Adverse Findings

[Citizen Koba]

We can’t take their word for it. I’m assuming because trace amounts were discovered, the assay was at the very least semi quantitative... but who establishes the range that is considered trace and how much can that amount be attributed to an actual the****utic effect? We run immunoassays in my lab that output values based on absorbance measurements that are converted into a normalized signal. These numbers are flagged when exceeding a cutoff range (aka detected a specific metabolite).

The other day a provider was asking me why the values were above zero but the results were negative and what that meant from a the****utic point of view (non compliance, partial dosage, etc). The truth is that the reagent manufacturer and the instrument manufacturer set their own cutoff values and because of the nature of the test metabolite concentration is not linearly correlated to the result.

So in other words unless this is a gas chromatography (or some other quantitative assay) and some research entity (epidemiological or just scientific) has conducted a large scale study on clenbuterol and it’s positive effect on performance in athletes, somehow establish a range of measured doses that does not cause a positive effect AND measure metabolite concentration at varying lengths of metabolism AND then establish an acceptable metabolite range. This is all bull**** (apologies for the previous run on sentence)

S'alright man, good to hear from someone with a little more insight.. I've got some background in research but it's more from the epidemiology side. I've read just about everything I could easily (ie that wasn't behind a paywall) access on drug testing in boxing and I think I've developed a pretty good layman's understanding but there's nothing to replace the experience of someone who's worked in the field.

[Citizen Koba]

Lmao, it’s not that simple. They gave to make money for there family.. you know? Make a living line any normal being.. they are good at boxing and like to eat meat.. you don’t like it? Stop watching boxing it’s that simple

People are sometimes expected to make some sacrifices to do the work they do, man. People have to commute or relocate, they have to work graveyard shifts or wade through **** to clean the sewers Lemme ask you, really, whose rights should come first, the right of an opponent to know that the guy across the ring from him is clean or the right of that said fighter to eat what he damn well pleases? All around the globe athletes are constantly having to watch every damn thing they put into their bodies 24/7 to ensure they don't accidentally take in some banned substance in an energy drink or a suppliment or any other way, yet Chinese and Mexicans are exempt when all they got to do is change their diet... if it's your living man, you do it.. these guys could potentially earn millions, and any fighter at the level where testing becomes mandatory shouldn't be able to use this an excuse when all they got to do is change their diet.

Don't like it?... lobby the Mexican government to actually do something to maintain and uphold their own laws.

[NC Uppercut]

I get it, it shouldn’t be too hard to stay away from meat but .. us Mexicans love beef, it’s not as simple as you think. Carne asada, I’m sure you’ve heard of that, it’s a staple on every party which parties happen every weekend sometimes multiple times a week. So it’s not as simple as not eating the beef, their lifestyle revolves around family and get togethers and that involves food and beef is in tamales, tacos, burritos, bbq’s, enchiladas, basically anything and everything and don’t matter if it’s breakfast lunch or dinner or a snack like beef jerky... it’s not that easy brotha... I get that you need to be responsible and professional but it’s tough. Have you ever been on a diet, have you ever broken your diet? I think 99.9 people that go on a diet end up breaking it... perfect example

I know the traditions my friend. Understand your position. We like beef too. The diet was a good example

[NC Uppercut]

People are sometimes expected to make some sacrifices to do the work they do, man. People have to commute or relocate, they have to work graveyard shifts or wade through **** to clean the sewers Lemme ask you, really, whose rights should come first, the right of an opponent to know that the guy across the ring from him is clean or the right of that said fighter to eat what he damn well pleases? All around the globe athletes are constantly having to watch every damn thing they put into their bodies 24/7 to ensure they don't accidentally take in some banned substance in an energy drink or a suppliment or any other way, yet Chinese and Mexicans are exempt when all they got to do is change their diet... if it's your living man, you do it.. these guys could potentially earn millions, and any fighter at the level where testing becomes mandatory shouldn't be able to use this an excuse when all they got to do is change their diet.

Don't like it?... lobby the Mexican government to actually do something to maintain and uphold their own laws.

Much better analogy! Koba, I get tired of you out doing me in every way, chuckles and all!
Cheers

[Robi13]

People are sometimes expected to make some sacrifices to do the work they do, man. People have to commute or relocate, they have to work graveyard shifts or wade through **** to clean the sewers Lemme ask you, really, whose rights should come first, the right of an opponent to know that the guy across the ring from him is clean or the right of that said fighter to eat what he damn well pleases? All around the globe athletes are constantly having to watch every damn thing they put into their bodies 24/7 to ensure they don't accidentally take in some banned substance in an energy drink or a suppliment or any other way, yet Chinese and Mexicans are exempt when all they got to do is change their diet... if it's your living man, you do it.. these guys could potentially earn millions, and any fighter at the level where testing becomes mandatory shouldn't be able to use this an excuse when all they got to do is change their diet.

Don't like it?... lobby the Mexican government to actually do something to maintain and uphold their own laws.

I get it, it’s just not that easy. The cattle industry isn’t going to change. Mexicans aren’t going to stop using boxing as a way of earning a living. These are facts, and they won’t stop eating beef that’s also facts so what now? How does this issue get fixed?

[Citizen Koba]

I get it, it’s just not that easy. The cattle industry isn’t going to change. Mexicans aren’t going to stop using boxing as a way of earning a living. These are facts, and they won’t stop eating beef that’s also facts so what now? How does this issue get fixed?

****, man... if I had the answer to that. If God himself stepped down from heaven and tried to put a stop to corruption in Mexico the Cartels would have a contract out on him in days.

What we do know is that WADA is funding research on hair strand testing that should eventually be able to discriminate between the****utic Clenbuterol use and meat contamination, though an effective discrimantory test is still probably a few years away (and may never be effective in redheads due to their different type of melanin).

In the meantime I personally would prefer that Mexican and Chinese athletes be subject to the same rules as everyone else - as evidenced by the U17 team it's quite possible to eat a Clen free diet in a country with contamination issues - but I also fully understand that political expedience and the lack of will and unified oversight in boxing makes this all but impossible.

I just dunno, man.

[Robi13]

****, man... if I had the answer to that. If God himself stepped down from heaven and tried to put a stop to corruption in Mexico the Cartels would have a contract out on him in days.

What we do know is that WADA is funding research on hair strand testing that should eventually be able to discriminate between the****utic Clenbuterol use and meat contamination, though an effective discrimantory test is still probably a few years away (and may never be effective in redheads due to their different type of melanin).

In the meantime I personally would prefer that Mexican and Chinese athletes be subject to the same rules as everyone else - as evidenced by the U17 team it's quite possible to eat a Clen free diet in a country with contamination issues - but I also fully understand that political expedience and the lack of will and unified oversight in boxing makes this all but impossible.

I just dunno, man.

Basically, nothing is gonna happen or be done and boxing and the cattle industry will go on. I mean, is it really a benefit? Where the Chinese champions at? If that’s the case

[Citizen Koba]

Basically, nothing is gonna happen or be done and boxing and the cattle industry will go on. I mean, is it really a benefit? Where the Chinese champions at? If that’s the case

Ha - now that's a reasonable question - just how much benefit is Clenbuterol? And I just don't know, but I would say that the vast majority of top level boxing is won at the margins, in the microsecond differences in reaction time, in the stamina to just keep pushing a few seconds longer, and in that context any advantage - however tiny, still matters. Does Clenbuterol provide any advantage small or large? Well in a sport like boxing where so many disparate factors contribute to success it's hard to think of an experimental method to definitively prove it one way or another, but when we look at the claimed benefits it's not hard to see how people might think that it would.

What does clenbuterol do?

Clenbuterol was originally intended to treat asthma, but has gained controversial popularity for aiding weight loss and bodybuilding.

Clenbuterol stimulates both the heart and central nervous system. It has a similar effect on the body as epinephrine and amphetamines.

It is also a beta-2-agonist, which is the opposite of a beta-blocker. While a beta-blocker will reduce the production of epinephrine and noradrenaline, clenbuterol increases it.

This increase will lead to a variety of effects, such as:

rapid fat burning
excitability
nervousness
increased energy
greater determination

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319927.php

[Pakutu93]

Mexicants cheats!!! Got over 15 high profile champions and contenders that got caught cheating!!
Well then let everybody else
Use Clenbuterol" *** it!!!
Let them have the same traces Mex cheats got caught then it's an even playing field!!!
No wonder they got so many champs now🤔
Franchise champ wtf?
You don't have to defend against the mandatory contender? Then anybody can have long reign!!!
**** the WBC!!!

[Pakutu93]

Mexicants cheats!!! Got over 15 high profile champions and contenders that got caught cheating!!
Well then let everybody else
Use Clenbuterol" *** it!!!
Let them have the same traces Mex cheats got caught then it's an even playing field!!!
No wonder they got so many champs now🤔
Franchise champ wtf?
You don't have to defend against the mandatory contender? Then anybody can have long reign!!!
**** the WBC!!!