Al Haymon and Wilder are playing checkers...

[Toffee]

[=champion4ever;19788125]Shit! This isn't a game of checkers or chess this is more like a game of Poker where you hold your cards close to the vest without tipping your hand to your opponent.

[/QUOTE]

It's a lucky dip where we celebrate getting a win.

Yet we know the organisers already removed the main prizes.

People celebrating rather than complaining seems ******.

[Joe Gans Louis]

I disagree Wilder or AJ are the most talented HW's. I think Fury with his head on straight is the most talented HW & he showed that by making Klitchko look like he'd never looked as a professional. Meanwhile after a period of inactively Klitschko gave Joshua a neck & neck life or death battle. And I already feel like Fury should have a W over Wilder, but cuz of those KD's he got a draw & I must admit it was within a fair enough margin of error where the draw wasn't THAT bad.



You can have as little interest as you want in Usyk or with Usyk getting a title fight. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm stating my opinion



HUH?!?!?! Ward is retired first off & 2nd good f#cking luck at Usyk losing 25lbs. Thats crazy man. I don't think you are thinking about some of your opinions in a rational way.



I'm really losing interest in this debate when you keep pulling random sh^t outta your ass. Holyfield & Tyson didn't have a amateur fight.

And I didn't bring up amateur sh^t to begin with. You did. I was just countering your silly remark with an equally silly remark so you would understand how silly your remark was. But apparently that didn't work lol.



LOL wut?!?! My dream? What are you even talking about.

And I highly doubt he's fighting Wilder first anyway. He's linked up with Matchroom & he's been fasttracked by the ABC Groups so he's GONNA get a shot sooner than you think & basically whenever he wants it or whenever Eddie needs him to be on the B side corner. From there if Usyk wins he'll get the Wilder fight I'd imagine cuz that'd be the big fight to make at that point & Wilder would probably turn into the A side once Joshua loses as long as he's still on top when it happens.



Brother I don't think you are getting it. Usyk is #2 by the WBA already & he's not even had a HW fight yet.

http://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-ranking#.XPLk04hKjIU

He's gonna be a mando real quick if he actually wins a fight trust me. Thats how it works.

Plus he's with Matchroom just like Joshua is so it'll be a super easy fight to make whenever Eddie decides to make it.



Lol no its not. If he loses a fight here or there maybe he doesn't get a title shot til he's 36 or something, but even then if he wins the right fights I suspect he'll get his opportunity before he's 36, 37. And if he wins fights he'll definitely get his chance sooner cuz he's #2 right f#cking now.



Finally something we agree on. I suspect Wilder is out or very close to being out once the Joshua fight happens.



If he wasn't already ranked #2 by the WBA I'd agree with you. Plus his with Eddie so he'll get a call up if he keeps winning sooner rather than later.



You're talking about a whole other thing now. I don't think Usyk will ever be a big draw. He'll be the B side to Joshua, Wilder & Fury til he beats them & then if he can reign for awhile he'll probably be the B side to Efe or DDD or whoever ends up being the best of these guys on the rise.

I'm not saying Joshua vs Usyk or Wilder vs Usyk is some super fight in the waiting.



I didn't say he would be calling his shot. He'll either have to wait for Eddie to call him up to fight Joshua or wait for his mando to come through.

Again you are on some whole other sh^t here. Usyk IS NOT A DRAW. He can fight his ass of doe. You might wanna consider Usyk the Winky Wright of HW's if he can hang. He'll be a threat to beat most guys out there, but he won't be the guy drawing in too many fans & absolutely zero casual fans.



And Breazeale should be. Breazeale has fought for the HW title twice & Usyk was the king of CW's which no one in the US gives a f#ck about. But again thats got nothing to do with if he can fight or not.



Usyk is already signed to Matchroom who's signed to DAZN so same thing already more or less.

But Usyk ISN'T gonna be a star. Idk why you keep mentioning that. Its got nothing to do with anything. Takam wasn't a star & he fought Joshua. Ortiz wasn't a star & he fought Wilder & is about to fight him again. Star power doesn't matter if you are good &/or got a mando situation or about to have a mando situation as Usyk likely will.



I think people overthink this Vegas thing like they overthink the PPV worthy thing. Fury is 2 weeks out from fighting that Schwarz guy at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. So any fight can be a Vegas fight. Is Fury vs Schwarz a Las Vegas fight lol?

I'd argue Joshua alone if he's able to grow his US popularity vs anyone could be a Vegas fight. The casinos would be dying to pay him a sexy site fee like they used to do with Floyd & Manny to fight in Vegas.

Plus we got that Raiders stadium being built that will be finished for the 2020 NFL season so it wouldn't be crazy to assume that Wilder vs Joshua could happen there & that could become the hot spot for all HW title fights if these two get max popular in the US over the next 14ish months.



Right now I'd bet against it. Although that has as much to do with maybe thinking the Big Baby's whole career could be a figment of his PED usage & maybe when he comes back he's not the same guy & doesn't get himself back into a position to fight for a title.



Brother why are you so hung up on the money sh^t??????

Joshua is the money guy. Wilder is the #2 money guy. Whyte might be the #3 money guy. Usyk is a foreign guy who barely speaks English. Thats not gonna get him a lot of fans in the US. Usyk can still beat mfers without being a draw. I brought up Winky Wright before. Winky Wright was a bad mfer who couldn't draw mfers to a family dinner as Spence would say. He still f#cked up my man Tito's day.

Everyone isn't gonna be a draw. In fact odds are a guy isn't gonna be a draw. Its hard enough to be a elite level boxer let alone to capture the hearts & minds of fans. And Usyk is a long longshot at ever becoming that.

LOL!! Winky was a favorite of mine too because he pissed off fans with his peek a boo style and was boring as £uck!! Ok Eff, we agree that Osyk is skilled but not a star who may have the ability to maybe beat a couple top contenders.

I do see that the WBA has fast tracked him to a #2 rating despite never facing a heavyweight. This isnt like moving up a division were a guy 5-15"pounds more than you.

12 months ago if Usyk was making the move to Hwy it would have been very possible for Usyk to have to fight a huge man like Jarrell Miller giving up close to 80lbs.

I dont think he could take on the best at Hwy with one tune up fight like Takam then he gets a shot at AJ giving up close to 40-50llbs and probably not being very fit after gainng the 20 lbs he needs face a guy like AJ or Ortiz. Usyk inst going to have the fear factor like Wilder where fighters are careful because of Wilders power.

My point is that Usyk vs AJ isnt a very good match up at this point from a marketing or quality point. The WBA being the sole body ranking him isnt enough to make this quality fight until Usyk shows hes a force to be reckoned with in the division. Im sorry but he is at least 3-4 fight away from being thought of that way.

There arent any fast track fights unless he KOs Whyte or Dubois in spectacular fashion. If hes coming up to Hwy with a stick and move box for the judges style then he might as well stay at cruiser because Fury already has that style covered and is much more marketable.

Wilder could be busy with Ortiz and Fury for as much as two years so Im very curious on how AJ/Hearn are going to make quality fights while Wilder continues to build his platform. Can AJ stay relevant while fighting the rest of the Hwys for two years??


Maybe AJ fans are content with their fighter fighting uncompetitive fight because matchroom sure didn't push hard for Fury and have let Fury agree to terms twice with Wilder. So basically his fans will scream bloody murder duck dooser at Wilder for the next 1-2 years while Wilder takes on the top guys and AJ continues a draught of not having an exciting fight since Wlad. Its been 2 years since Wlad and it could be 3-4 years between Wlad and the next interesting AJ fight.
If AJ and his investors and fans are fine with it then so be it but dont expect other fans to pay attention when boxing fans have two Wilder rematches to look forward too.


Im curious of how you scored Wlad vs Fury. Im curious because both fighters werent very active and I'd like to see how you score fights. I had Fury winning and Im curious to see why you had him winning too.

You stated that you felt the Wilder vs Fury was an slightly acceptable draw. What did you score that fight? It sounds like you felt Tyson should have won. What makes you feel Fury won both fights despite both fights being very different matches?

[Rusty Tromboni]

If Usyk acclimates to the HW division EVERYONE except probably Fury is f#cked lol.

And I like Joshua's chances vs Usyk less than Wilder's. While Wilder can be outboxed easier I think even if Usyk can handle HW power & the size of these cats he'll be just like everyone else vs Wilder with needing a no mistake 12 round fight to win cuz Wilder will need just one punch to finish it. Fury put some holes in that theory by getting the draw, but I don't think its a very exploitable thing even if Fury almost got around it.

But thats all still a big guess with Usyk handling HW. I think Joshua vs Usyk is more interesting if they don't test out Usyk too much at HW honestly. If Usyk is put in with a guy like Povetkin or Whyte & can handle them with relative ease I think its a favorable situation going in with Joshua. But if Usyk fights Takam as planned still I believe & goes straight into a Joshua fight there are still a bunch of unanswered questions on Usyk that will get answered vs Joshua

Perfect post.

[juggernaut666]

Wilders limitations is "Connect Four ' .

Chess and checkers aren't in the equation, tells a lot how one can turn down over 100 million.

[Santa_]

Ortiz and Fury = checkers
Ruiz and Pulev = chess

[IMG]https://media.*****.com/media/fjXSwNcLyADjG/*****.gif[/IMG]

[Scipio2009]

I've been laughing all day reading the comments from Wildettes about how Wilder is playing chess by announcing all his supposed next moves during Josh's fight week, lol.

Apart from Wildettes and perhaps boxing reporters, no one really cares about what Wilder is doing next. 4,000 people attended Josh's press conference on Thursday and 6000 attended the weigh-in, with all kinds of boxers and celebrities in attendance. Wilder couldn't even get 6000 heads to buy tickets to his last fight in the same city, lol. And tomorrow, MSG would be sold out with over 20,000 people in attendance.

I believe it just burns Wilder's soul like ether to see a next man come to his country and steal the show, then get all the love he never gets, lol. I guess that's why he's trying to play all his cards at once. But regardless, you can't win or freeze out a man with 3 belts and more commercial power than you. You're going to end up losing on the long run.

No matter what AJ does, his brand is going to keep growing and the spoiler is going to be Usyk once he gets in the mix. If Usyk ever looks good in his heavyweight debut, best believe he's going to be the next white hype, especially since he's going to be fighting in the US. And if Josh ends up beating him, his already huge profile is going to end up getting bigger.

As for Wilder, if he ends up losing to either Fury or Ortiz, his career and chance for a big payday is over because I doubt Josh will fight him with nothing at stake.

Lol.

Fight is on right now, the ticket brokers have already dumped the tickets en masse, and you've still got the 4000-5000 vacant seats on Ticketmaster, lol.

10000+ Brits crossed the water, and it's seeming like there may end up being 14000 in the building, lol.

[Scipio2009]

Yea Pulev doesnt draw ****. Thinking that's what happens now that this Wilder Fury deal has been announced. I was worried Arum was gonna try drag it out if couldnt get Wilder/Fury2

If the plan really is to not fight in the US, it's down to the battle between that Bulgarian money and what Hearn could see to offer for a fight in the UK.

Oligarch money is something else, lol

[Eff Pandas]

My point is that Usyk vs AJ isnt a very good match up at this point from a marketing or quality point.

And Joshua vs Takam or Joshua vs Ruiz Jr was? I think you are either wanting this fight to be a superfight or it makes no sense to you for some reason. Its not a superfight.

And granted now with Joshua losing last night everything changes to some degree.

The WBA being the sole body ranking him isnt enough to make this quality fight until Usyk shows hes a force to be reckoned with in the division. Im sorry but he is at least 3-4 fight away from being thought of that way.

Again idk what this even means. Boxing is KNOWN for non-quality fights. Last night was a non-quality fight yet it happened & Joshua even lost to a non-quality opponent. That doesn't mean anything with if it should or shouldn't happen or the time table it should or shouldn't happened.

I'd have guessed Ruiz was 5-10 fights from fighting for a HW title til he landed the Joshua fight. Thats not how things went down doe.

There arent any fast track fights unless he KOs Whyte or Dubois in spectacular fashion.

Dubois?!?!?! Dubois isn't even a player in the HW division yet. He's a prospect. Usyk beating Dubious wouldn't do anything for Usyk & it'd be a step down fight for Usyk honestly.

And you don't need to KO anyone to be fasttracked. Hell man Whyte has the best resume of any HW without a title right now & he's not even gotten a title fight yet.

Can AJ stay relevant while fighting the rest of the Hwys for two years??

LOL as of today its not looking good I know that.

Im curious of how you scored Wlad vs Fury. Im curious because both fighters werent very active and I'd like to see how you score fights. I had Fury winning and Im curious to see why you had him winning too.

Idr my exact scoring, but I had Fury winning easily + I was one of the minority of people saying Fury was a future HW champion & would beat Klitschko & I won a nice lil stack of money on Fury at 6 to 1.

You stated that you felt the Wilder vs Fury was an slightly acceptable draw. What did you score that fight? It sounds like you felt Tyson should have won. What makes you feel Fury won both fights despite both fights being very different matches?

I thought it was close enough to within the margin of error for a draw, but personally I did think Fury eeked it out. But like I said I'm not mad about the draw like many are. Wilder had to do very little to get a draw when you factor in those KD's (win 3 of the other 10 rounds). There was definitely a lot of nothing happening at times & unlike in the Fury vs Klitschko fight Wilder was showing some effective aggression by throwing & landing some punches here & there.

I mean look at the punch stats for a snapshot of the fights:

TF 86/371 or 7/31 per round
WK 52/231 or 4/19 per round

TF 84/327 or 7/27 per round
DW 71/430 or 6/36 per round