Al Haymon and Wilder are playing checkers...

[Motorcity Cobra]

Gonna be real interesting purse bids on the Pulev fight. Arum gonna try to steal him off DAZN, but we all know that's a **** fight, AJ rolls him easy. Do wanna see new Spurs stadium tho!

It may not be Arum. It could be the same folks who put up all that money for the Whyte & Hughie purse bids.

[Robbie Barrett]

It may not be Arum. It could be the same folks who put up all that money for the Whyte & Hughie purse bids.

Oh look the guy that bet with me $500 that Wilder-Fury would happen earlier this year and then refused to pay when he lost.

[STREET CLEANER]

I was right. You were wrong. You were the clown.

I wasn't wrong because I didn't opinion on the rematch. Again putting words in my mouth to justify your clowness.

[Tutsa]

Haymon brought a chesse board but DW said he let’s you’d my daughters chesse board ! Al Haymon 🤔 checkers and this fool is getting paid 20 million a fight !! Floyd get your ass over her take my seat play the champ TBE . Floyd 😱 checkers is that a burger 🍔 joint !!

[champion4ever]

Shit! This isn't a game of checkers or chess this is more like a game of Poker where you hold your cards close to the vest without tipping your hand to your opponent.

In that regard, Eddie has been badly outmaneuvered and outwitted this week by Al Haymon and perhaps even Frank Warren. Haymon has that poker face and walks in silence. While Edward is the opposite. He is loud, brash and announces to the world his next move.

Eddie Hearn laid all of his cards on the table while Team Wilder held theirs close to the vest by planning and executing their next moves. Then suddenly Matchroom was blindsided by the Ortiz announcement which was then followed by the Tyson Fury announcement that he wasn't fighting Dillian Whyte and lastly the announcement that Wilder would be fighting him instead after Luis Ortiz.

It's called the element of surprise. They played this one beautifully. What a well orchestrated, implemented and executed move by Team Wilder?

They made Anthony Joshua week all about Deontay Wilder and themselves and not Team Joshua. They had successfully stolen all of Matchroom's Headlines, shine and publicity from AJ's American debut

[dannnnn]

You are almost saying that if he can beat on then he can beat them all. This is from a guy who lost to Shawn Porter (5'7) in the amateurs. So the myth of him being this ultra skilled fighter isnt true. Porter is a very good fighter but he isnt a Spence or Crawford level fighter.

You say this as though it has some kind of bearing on the ability of Usyk today. That particular amateur bout was nigh on fifteen years ago when both were under the age of twenty. To imply that Usyk is in any way - in terms of skill or otherwise - the same fighter now as he was back then when he was little more than a kid is nonsensical at best. Usyk went on to win Olympic gold before becoming the undefeated, undisputed cruiserweight world champion while Shawn Porter failed to qualify for the Olympics and is now a welterweight contender who has been able to snag a title or two by beating other contenders (but never the consensus champion). How do you think that fight would go now?

Just because he can **** with the likes of Junoir Fa and Joe Joyce in the amateurs with headgear on doesnt make him a likely long reigning champ. Headgear makes smaller fighters look good against bigger dudes. David Haye looked like he could beat Wilder given the chance in sparring but we know what Hayes chin is made of and we know its not built for taking Wilders best punches.

He beat both Fa and Joyce sans headgear in the WSB and swept every round against each of them, 5-0.

And to your other (irrelevant) point, Haye very well could have beaten Wilder before he became too old and injury prone to compete at world level. I agree, Haye's chin couldn't have withstood Wilder's bombs, but neither could Wilder's chin have withstood Haye's best shots and Haye was the faster-punching more skillful fighter of the two. Not saying he would have won, but he certainly could have. He's better than anyone Wilder has currently beaten.

Wilder has spared with David Haye, so he's used to dealing with someone much faster and skilled than Usyk.

Haye in his prime may have had faster handspeed and more explosive punching power than Usyk, but he was not more skilled.

The rest of your post isn't even worth responding to, which I presume is why Pandas refrained from bothering to waste his time in doing so.
I'm not going to suggest I would favour Usyk to beat Wilder (or Fury or Joshua) because until I see how he carries the added mass and performs at heavyweight I simply can't make a judgement, but from your posts it is clearly evident to me that you both underestimate Usyk's abilities and overestimate Wilder's.

[Eff Pandas]

Im not trying to get caught up in semantics but saying if Usyk can "hang" at Hwy then he could beat anyone in that division is a very long leap of faith. "Hang" is s broad term so I dont know YOUR meaning of "hang". Hang could mean one maybe two fights or an the rest of his career.

Hang in the way I'm using it means he can handle the power & size of these 90%+ KO percentage 6'5+ guys. Holyfield is a great example of a smaller HW who could hang with HW's. He became a multi-HW champion. My Michigan brother Chris Byrd is a fair example of a smaller HW who usually could hang with HW's. He couldn't contend with the biggest guys (Wlad) or the hardest hitting (Ike), but he dealt with enough of them to win a HW belt for a time.

You are almost saying that if he can beat on then he can beat them all. This is from a guy who lost to Shawn Porter (5'7) in the amateurs. So the myth of him being this ultra skilled fighter isnt true. Porter is a very good fighter but he isnt a Spence or Crawford level fighter.

Bringing up Amateur results is like bringing up sparring "outcomes". Wilder & Joshua both got KTFO as Amateurs iirc. Does that define them today?

Just because he can **** with the likes of Junoir Fa and Joe Joyce in the amateurs with headgear on doesnt make him a likely long reigning champ. Headgear makes smaller fighters look good against bigger dudes. David Haye looked like he could beat Wilder given the chance in sparring but we know what Hayes chin is made of and we know its not built for taking Wilders best punches.

I didn't make any claims about how long he keeps a belt if he wins one or all of them. To me thats a whole new thing to contend with when you have to continually fight a certain caliber of guy on a high level.

There is too much unknown about this next era of HWs on the comeup to predict him holding a belt for 5 years or some sh^t. Maybe Efe & DDD end up being future legends or some sh^t.

f he was the man you say he is then he would have trained to be a Hwy and not Cruiser. No that he's hurt there is no effing way he deserves a title shot over Hwy fighters with over 20 Hwy fights.

So Holyfield was a ***** cuz he started at CW instead of HW?

This is just a silly remark.

What makes him so special that he can skip working his way up the ranks against Hwys 20+ lbs heavier than the way lesser talented cruiser division. He's cherrypicking his way to a title shot by not fighting at

Thats standard ABC sh^t. If you've won titles in a lower weight division you get a favorable ranking when you move up.

Take your issue with this up with the ABC groups not me.

Saying Wilder on has a punchers chance against Wilder is laughable. Wilder has spared with David Haye, so he's used to dealing with someone much faster and skilled than Usyk. Haye isnt ****** to **** with Wilder without head gear and Usyk is going to feel Wilders true power unlike sparring and the amateurs.

Lol at Haye being better than Usyk. You must be a UK guy.

Comparing Usyk defense skills to Fury is laughable to. 6'3 vs 6'9, 30-40 pound weight advantage with a longer reach gives Wilder more problems then a guy with "skills" and some movement.

Fury despite his natural size advantage got put on his @$$ twice and only got up by the grace of God and was lucky it was the 12 round saving him from more punishment after being clearly concussed.

Pretty positive I said I'd favor Fury over Usyk so no idea why your making so much effort to agree with me while acting like we are in disagreement here.

Usyk isnt getting up after a soild right from Wilder. All the name calling and hype jobbing in the world wont change that. I dont see Usyk getting any faster once he gains the weight needed to fight the likes of AJ and Wilder.

Thats fine cuz he'll be much faster vs HWs more than likely cuz HWs are much slower than CWs.

Usyk doesnt have any advantages that are going to keep Wilder and AJ at bay and from bombing on him all night. Im not talking about wild shot either. If they learn on him and work his body all night and get him to drop his hand and slow his speed down he gets dropped in the 7-10th round by both fighters.

Very standard mfers have lasted rounds vs Joshua & Wilder. Lets not get cray cray now.

If they were to build him up the right way by giving him the time and the fights to build up his name them he could be fighter you say he could be. But given his current statue in the sport as a GGG(couldnt carry HBO) like hype job I dont think he's worth giving a title shot for 2-4 years.

Lol huh? The guy is in his prime now. He's got a ring IQ better than any two guys in the HW top ten that isn't named Tyson. There isn't anything for him to learn. He can hang with HWs who are 6'5+ with impressive power or he can't. Usyk's HW future gets determined the first time he fights one of these top 10 super HW cats. Its sink or swim. He's not likely to learn how to deal with power.

Its probably the best thing for his health and career to build him slowly instead of throwing him to the wolves and expecting the miracle you think he can pull off by winning and defending the belts over a 3-4 year period.

Lol wut? He's 33 years old in 6 months. You want him to get a shot when he's 36, 37? Thats f#cking ******. What are we hoping he learns by the time he's past prime & his reflexes have slowed down thats gonna help him exactly?

I'd hope for Usyk to be retired by 37 not still be finding how out good he can be at HW.

[Joe Gans Louis]

Hang in the way I'm using it means he can handle the power & size of these 90%+ KO percentage 6'5+ guys. Holyfield is a great example of a smaller HW who could hang with HW's. He became a multi-HW champion. My Michigan brother Chris Byrd is a fair example of a smaller HW who usually could hang with HW's. He couldn't contend with the biggest guys (Wlad) or the hardest hitting (Ike), but he dealt with enough of them to win a HW belt for a time.



Bringing up Amateur results is like bringing up sparring "outcomes". Wilder & Joshua both got KTFO as Amateurs iirc. Does that define them today?



I didn't make any claims about how long he keeps a belt if he wins one or all of them. To me thats a whole new thing to contend with when you have to continually fight a certain caliber of guy on a high level.

There is too much unknown about this next era of HWs on the comeup to predict him holding a belt for 5 years or some sh^t. Maybe Efe & DDD end up being future legends or some sh^t.



So Holyfield was a ***** cuz he started at CW instead of HW?

This is just a silly remark.



Thats standard ABC sh^t. If you've won titles in a lower weight division you get a favorable ranking when you move up.

Take your issue with this up with the ABC groups not me.



Lol at Haye being better than Usyk. You must be a UK guy.



Pretty positive I said I'd favor Fury over Usyk so no idea why your making so much effort to agree with me while acting like we are in disagreement here.



Thats fine cuz he'll be much faster vs HWs more than likely cuz HWs are much slower than CWs.



Very standard mfers have lasted rounds vs Joshua & Wilder. Lets not get cray cray now.



Lol huh? The guy is in his prime now. He's got a ring IQ better than any two guys in the HW top ten that isn't named Tyson. There isn't anything for him to learn. He can hang with HWs who are 6'5+ with impressive power or he can't. Usyk's HW future gets determined the first time he fights one of these top 10 super HW cats. Its sink or swim. He's not likely to learn how to deal with power.



Lol wut? He's 33 years old in 6 months. You want him to get a shot when he's 36, 37? Thats f#cking ******. What are we hoping he learns by the time he's past prime & his reflexes have slowed down thats gonna help him exactly?

I'd hope for Usyk to be retired by 37 not still be finding how out good he can be at HW.

Come on Eff. Let's be honest. You are the one saying that Usyk has a chance against Wilder and AJ who are clearly the most talented Hwys active.

I have little interest in a fight with no professional track record at Hwy getting a fast track to the title only to defend it once or lose it quickly.

If he inst going to stay at heavy I rather see him go down to light heavy or fight Ward at a catch weight. At least that fight would have some intrigue.

If you are bringing up Holyfield and his cruiserweight record (moving up to Hvy) then I can metion his performance vs Tyson in the amateurs as evidence of what you do in the amateurs can matter in the pros.

Usyk at this point is highly decorated but very unproven to even seriously say he could get though a gauntlet of Takam, Whyte, and AJ.

Your dream of him taking down Wilder isnt happening for 3-4 years. If hes going to be an active Hwy, hes going to have to fight 5-6 Hwys to do so.

Thats just being realistic because if AJ is on the backburner for Fury and Wilder then Usyk is waaaaaaay down the list unless he takes down AJ. No dobut someone will start saying Fury, AJ, or Wilder is ducking Usyk despite him ducking out on the entire division as a pro.

So the possibility him seeing Wilder when he his 36/37 is very real unless he beats some high level prospects in a row like Dubois and Joyce in spectacular fashion or he deals with King Kong AJ very soon.

AJ is going to be Wilders swan song aka retirement ticket. After that fight you will need to be a 200mil fight to entice him to fight. In that same time frame Dubois (Warren) and Franklin (Showtime) may have put themselves ahead of Usyk for a title shot. Thats even if Wilder wants to give anyone a chance after taking on Fury, Ortiz, and AJ.

You said it yourself that Usyk is 32 and doesnt have time to waste. Well thats his problem and not eveyone elses. Just like GGG he needs a Mexican or a Black fighter to make him a star or get him paid. If he was such a star at cruiser than it would be easy for Wilder to go down to cruiser and fight him on even weight terms.

But those cruiser belts aint worth a damn because Usyk has no following outside of the very knowledgeable fight fans like yourself. Anybody who post here is a hardcore fans. A Usyk PPV fight vs Jesus would do 20k fans at best RIGHT NOW.

At 32 years old and no Hwy victories under his belt he not going to be able to dictate any terms unless he gets a big network/promoter to push him into the picture. He has done nothing to build the current state of Hwy boxing and really has no standing above Fury, Ortiz, AJ, Wlad, Whyte and Wilder who have all had. exciting fights with each other to put the division were it is right now.

Breazele is more relative and more well known than Usyk. Breazele had to fight AJ (helped make him a madatory) just to get a shot a Wilder. And this isnt four years ago when titles were easy pickings from the likes of Charles Martin and Joseph Parker. There are a ton of guys yearning for a shot with fight purses looking to be in the 100m range now.

Maybe Hearn makes me eat my words and signs Usyk to DAZN then makes him a star prior to fighting AJ. Thats the side of the fight bracket Usyk and even AJ are on. Its cool for boxing but I dont see how it helps Hearn in his quest to conquer the American Boxing market.

Please tell me a Vegas worthy fight for AJ in the next 3 years that doesnt include Fury/Wilder?? Does AJ give Miller a second chance in NY?? Can AJ and Usyk sellout Vegas and do big numbers on DAZN selling $20 views. That price model works when you have these A/B side fights were one guy is getting peanuts but what about A/A side SUPERFIGHTS where both fighters deserve big purses because their followings are willing to pay a premium to see A/A side SUPERFIGHTS and not A/B side fights.

At this point I think it more realistic to think about the AJ vs Usyk match up and if Usyk can get past that monster. Hell, we could get Wilder vs Fury 3 if the gods make it so. Guys like Dubois, Joyce, and AJ are gonna be on the menu for Usyk now. Lets see how this side of the fight bracket plays out before we worry about the Ortiz, Fury, and Wilder side.

[OnlyBeingHonest]

Ortiz and Fury = checkers
Ruiz and Pulev = chess

Thread should've ended here

[Eff Pandas]

Come on Eff. Let's be honest. You are the one saying that Usyk has a chance against Wilder and AJ who are clearly the most talented Hwys active.

I disagree Wilder or AJ are the most talented HW's. I think Fury with his head on straight is the most talented HW & he showed that by making Klitchko look like he'd never looked as a professional. Meanwhile after a period of inactively Klitschko gave Joshua a neck & neck life or death battle. And I already feel like Fury should have a W over Wilder, but cuz of those KD's he got a draw & I must admit it was within a fair enough margin of error where the draw wasn't THAT bad.

I have little interest in a fight with no professional track record at Hwy getting a fast track to the title only to defend it once or lose it quickly.

You can have as little interest as you want in Usyk or with Usyk getting a title fight. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm stating my opinion

If he inst going to stay at heavy I rather see him go down to light heavy or fight Ward at a catch weight. At least that fight would have some intrigue.

HUH?!?!?! Ward is retired first off & 2nd good f#cking luck at Usyk losing 25lbs. Thats crazy man. I don't think you are thinking about some of your opinions in a rational way.

If you are bringing up Holyfield and his cruiserweight record (moving up to Hvy) then I can metion his performance vs Tyson in the amateurs as evidence of what you do in the amateurs can matter in the pros.

I'm really losing interest in this debate when you keep pulling random sh^t outta your ass. Holyfield & Tyson didn't have a amateur fight.

And I didn't bring up amateur sh^t to begin with. You did. I was just countering your silly remark with an equally silly remark so you would understand how silly your remark was. But apparently that didn't work lol.

Your dream of him taking down Wilder isnt happening for 3-4 years. If hes going to be an active Hwy, hes going to have to fight 5-6 Hwys to do so.

LOL wut?!?! My dream? What are you even talking about.

And I highly doubt he's fighting Wilder first anyway. He's linked up with Matchroom & he's been fasttracked by the ABC Groups so he's GONNA get a shot sooner than you think & basically whenever he wants it or whenever Eddie needs him to be on the B side corner. From there if Usyk wins he'll get the Wilder fight I'd imagine cuz that'd be the big fight to make at that point & Wilder would probably turn into the A side once Joshua loses as long as he's still on top when it happens.

Thats just being realistic because if AJ is on the backburner for Fury and Wilder then Usyk is waaaaaaay down the list unless he takes down AJ. No dobut someone will start saying Fury, AJ, or Wilder is ducking Usyk despite him ducking out on the entire division as a pro.

Brother I don't think you are getting it. Usyk is #2 by the WBA already & he's not even had a HW fight yet.

http://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-ranking#.XPLk04hKjIU

He's gonna be a mando real quick if he actually wins a fight trust me. Thats how it works.

Plus he's with Matchroom just like Joshua is so it'll be a super easy fight to make whenever Eddie decides to make it.

So the possibility him seeing Wilder when he his 36/37 is very real unless he beats some high level prospects in a row like Dubois and Joyce in spectacular fashion or he deals with King Kong AJ very soon.

Lol no its not. If he loses a fight here or there maybe he doesn't get a title shot til he's 36 or something, but even then if he wins the right fights I suspect he'll get his opportunity before he's 36, 37. And if he wins fights he'll definitely get his chance sooner cuz he's #2 right f#cking now.

AJ is going to be Wilders swan song aka retirement ticket.

Finally something we agree on. I suspect Wilder is out or very close to being out once the Joshua fight happens.

You said it yourself that Usyk is 32 and doesnt have time to waste. Well thats his problem and not eveyone elses. Just like GGG he needs a Mexican or a Black fighter to make him a star or get him paid. If he was such a star at cruiser than it would be easy for Wilder to go down to cruiser and fight him on even weight terms.

If he wasn't already ranked #2 by the WBA I'd agree with you. Plus his with Eddie so he'll get a call up if he keeps winning sooner rather than later.

But those cruiser belts aint worth a damn because Usyk has no following outside of the very knowledgeable fight fans like yourself. Anybody who post here is a hardcore fans. A Usyk PPV fight vs Jesus would do 20k fans at best RIGHT NOW.

You're talking about a whole other thing now. I don't think Usyk will ever be a big draw. He'll be the B side to Joshua, Wilder & Fury til he beats them & then if he can reign for awhile he'll probably be the B side to Efe or DDD or whoever ends up being the best of these guys on the rise.

I'm not saying Joshua vs Usyk or Wilder vs Usyk is some super fight in the waiting.

At 32 years old and no Hwy victories under his belt he not going to be able to dictate any terms unless he gets a big network/promoter to push him into the picture. He has done nothing to build the current state of Hwy boxing and really has no standing above Fury, Ortiz, AJ, Wlad, Whyte and Wilder who have all had. exciting fights with each other to put the division were it is right now.

I didn't say he would be calling his shot. He'll either have to wait for Eddie to call him up to fight Joshua or wait for his mando to come through.

Again you are on some whole other sh^t here. Usyk IS NOT A DRAW. He can fight his ass of doe. You might wanna consider Usyk the Winky Wright of HW's if he can hang. He'll be a threat to beat most guys out there, but he won't be the guy drawing in too many fans & absolutely zero casual fans.

Breazele is more relative and more well known than Usyk. Breazele had to fight AJ (helped make him a madatory) just to get a shot a Wilder. And this isnt four years ago when titles were easy pickings from the likes of Charles Martin and Joseph Parker. There are a ton of guys yearning for a shot with fight purses looking to be in the 100m range now.

And Breazeale should be. Breazeale has fought for the HW title twice & Usyk was the king of CW's which no one in the US gives a f#ck about. But again thats got nothing to do with if he can fight or not.

Maybe Hearn makes me eat my words and signs Usyk to DAZN then makes him a star prior to fighting AJ. Thats the side of the fight bracket Usyk and even AJ are on. Its cool for boxing but I dont see how it helps Hearn in his quest to conquer the American Boxing market.

Usyk is already signed to Matchroom who's signed to DAZN so same thing already more or less.

But Usyk ISN'T gonna be a star. Idk why you keep mentioning that. Its got nothing to do with anything. Takam wasn't a star & he fought Joshua. Ortiz wasn't a star & he fought Wilder & is about to fight him again. Star power doesn't matter if you are good &/or got a mando situation or about to have a mando situation as Usyk likely will.

Please tell me a Vegas worthy fight for AJ in the next 3 years that doesnt include Fury/Wilder??

I think people overthink this Vegas thing like they overthink the PPV worthy thing. Fury is 2 weeks out from fighting that Schwarz guy at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. So any fight can be a Vegas fight. Is Fury vs Schwarz a Las Vegas fight lol?

I'd argue Joshua alone if he's able to grow his US popularity vs anyone could be a Vegas fight. The casinos would be dying to pay him a sexy site fee like they used to do with Floyd & Manny to fight in Vegas.

Plus we got that Raiders stadium being built that will be finished for the 2020 NFL season so it wouldn't be crazy to assume that Wilder vs Joshua could happen there & that could become the hot spot for all HW title fights if these two get max popular in the US over the next 14ish months.

Does AJ give Miller a second chance in NY??

Right now I'd bet against it. Although that has as much to do with maybe thinking the Big Baby's whole career could be a figment of his PED usage & maybe when he comes back he's not the same guy & doesn't get himself back into a position to fight for a title.

Can AJ and Usyk sellout Vegas and do big numbers on DAZN selling $20 views. That price model works when you have these A/B side fights were one guy is getting peanuts but what about A/A side SUPERFIGHTS where both fighters deserve big purses because their followings are willing to pay a premium to see A/A side SUPERFIGHTS and not A/B side fights.

Brother why are you so hung up on the money sh^t??????

Joshua is the money guy. Wilder is the #2 money guy. Whyte might be the #3 money guy. Usyk is a foreign guy who barely speaks English. Thats not gonna get him a lot of fans in the US. Usyk can still beat mfers without being a draw. I brought up Winky Wright before. Winky Wright was a bad mfer who couldn't draw mfers to a family dinner as Spence would say. He still f#cked up my man Tito's day.

Everyone isn't gonna be a draw. In fact odds are a guy isn't gonna be a draw. Its hard enough to be a elite level boxer let alone to capture the hearts & minds of fans. And Usyk is a long longshot at ever becoming that.