Comments Thread For: Canelo Alvarez is an Excellent Fighter... But Not The Best

[batista84]

P4P is very delicate to talk about. IMHO I think that there are 3 factors who determine who is best P4P and I list them in importance order.

1 - Accomplisments
2 - Resume
3 - Skills and Forms

I rate skills and forms as the least important because you can look flashy against a c fighter but almost no one looks flashy against an elite opponent.

My top 3
1 - Terence Crawford
2 - Saul Alvarez
3 - Vasily Lomachenko

Here is my breakdown:

Terence Crawford
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion
1 Undisputed 140 Championship
2 Lineal 135 and 140 Championships

Resume = Best Wins
Postol , Gamboa, Horn, Benavidez Jr.

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Crawford is ambidextrous and can box and fight on both stances. what else can you ask for? The dude is mean, can counter, has power in both hands is clever and has very nice defense altough I'd put his defense as his Achilles Heel. he get's clipped often and a guy his size who can punch might hurt him.


Canelo Alvarez
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion (I know he's 168 regular but on paper he's still a champ)
1 Lineal 160 and Championship

Resume = Best Wins
GGG, Jacobs, Lara, Trout,

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Canelo has it all, great combinations, power, quick hands, good timing, and a very underrated slick defense, his problems are on the heavy feet arguably attributed to his knee problems and the stamina department.


Vasily Lomachenko
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion

Resume = Best Wins
Russel Jr, Walters , Rigondeaux. Linares.

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Skillwise I think Loma is the better of the 3, the guy has offense, defense, reflexes, timing, power and his cardio is monster.


Now if we had to give these 3 fighters a grade upon those 3 criterias I would have them like these

1 - Acomplishments
Crawford A / Canelo B / Lomachenko C

2 - Resume
Canelo A / Crawford B / Lomahcenko C

3 Skills and Forms
Lomachenko A / Crawford B / Canelo C

Now following these you can see why I got my list the way I got it, note that I got these list based on 2 factual criterias which are accomplishments and resume the thrid one (Skills and Forms) is a more subjectie one.

Crawford has earned more medals, Canelo has beaten the better opposition and Loma has looked the better.

Now if someone is gonna tell me that Canelo's resume is tainted because of controversial judging I don't care because like I said it's not based on opinion it's based on facts. Just like a lot of people thought Castillo beat Mayweather a long time ago, it don't matter because Mayweather was declared as the winner of that fight.

Another thing we could factor is the number of champions who each one of these guys have defeated:

Canelo
Trout WBA SWW Champion
Cotto WBC MW Champion
Smith WBO SWW Champion
GGG WBC and WBA Champion
Fielding WBA SMW Champion
Jacobs IBF MW Champion
Total = 6 champions

Crawford
Burns WBO LW Champion
Postol WBC SLW Champion
Indongo WBA and IFB SLW Champion
Horn WBO WW Champion
Total = 4 Champions

Lomachenko
Martinez WBO SFW Champion
Linares WBA LW Champion
Pedraza WBO LW Champion
Total = 3 Champions

As you can see it all sums and makes logical sense, I don't sea a reason why everyone would put Lomachenko ahead of Alvarez if we abide by facts.

Nevertheless everyone is enticed to their own opinion like I said these lists are very delicate

Just my two cents.

[Caxcan]

P4P lists are subjective and I don't really pay much heed to them so it's whatever, but this writer isn't even trying to be objective. He claims no one was impressed by Canelo's fights with GGG when those were two of the best fights of the year and even team GGG had to take their hat off to him for flipping the script on the supposed boogeyman of boxing. Meanwhile he harps on Canelo's win over Lara because he would have like to have seen more from the 23 year old but doesn't even mention that Loma lost to aging underdog Salido during that time.

According to my "eye test" lol, Canelo decisioning GGG and comfortably beating Jacobs were more p4p worthy recent performances than Loma getting dropped in a tough fight against the poor man's Khan Linares or getting swelled up and going the distance with Pedraza who was handled by Tank.

[REYESdelBOXEO]

CANELO is clearly the best fighter in the world. This writer just embarrassed himself with his arguments.

Boxing is "The Best vs. The Best = The Best" NOT "The Eye Test vs. C class fighter's = The Best"

CANELO #1 P4P

[ShoulderRoll]

P4P is very delicate to talk about. IMHO I think that there are 3 factors who determine who is best P4P and I list them in importance order.

1 - Accomplisments
2 - Resume
3 - Skills and Forms

I rate skills and forms as the least important because you can look flashy against a c fighter but almost no one looks flashy against an elite opponent.

My top 3
1 - Terence Crawford
2 - Saul Alvarez
3 - Vasily Lomachenko

Here is my breakdown:

Terence Crawford
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion
1 Undisputed 140 Championship
2 Lineal 135 and 140 Championships

Resume = Best Wins
Postol , Gamboa, Horn, Benavidez Jr.

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Crawford is ambidextrous and can box and fight on both stances. what else can you ask for? The dude is mean, can counter, has power in both hands is clever and has very nice defense altough I'd put his defense as his Achilles Heel. he get's clipped often and a guy his size who can punch might hurt him.


Canelo Alvarez
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion (I know he's 168 regular but on paper he's still a champ)
1 Lineal 160 and Championship

Resume = Best Wins
GGG, Jacobs, Lara, Trout,

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Canelo has it all, great combinations, power, quick hands, good timing, and a very underrated slick defense, his problems are on the heavy feet arguably attributed to his knee problems and the stamina department.


Vasily Lomachenko
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion

Resume = Best Wins
Russel Jr, Walters , Rigondeaux. Linares.

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Skillwise I think Loma is the better of the 3, the guy has offense, defense, reflexes, timing, power and his cardio is monster.


Now if we had to give these 3 fighters a grade upon those 3 criterias I would have them like these

1 - Acomplishments
Crawford A / Canelo B / Lomachenko C

2 - Resume
Canelo A / Crawford B / Lomahcenko C

3 Skills and Forms
Lomachenko A / Crawford B / Canelo C

Now following these you can see why I got my list the way I got it, note that I got these list based on 2 factual criterias which are accomplishments and resume the thrid one (Skills and Forms) is a more subjectie one.

Crawford has earned more medals, Canelo has beaten the better opposition and Loma has looked the better.

Now if someone is gonna tell me that Canelo's resume is tainted because of controversial judging I don't care because like I said it's not based on opinion it's based on facts. Just like a lot of people thought Castillo beat Mayweather a long time ago, it don't matter because Mayweather was declared as the winner of that fight.

Another thing we could factor is the number of champions who each one of these guys have defeated:

Canelo
Trout WBA SWW Champion
Cotto WBC MW Champion
Smith WBO SWW Champion
GGG WBC and WBA Champion
Fielding WBA SMW Champion
Jacobs IBF MW Champion
Total = 6 champions

Crawford
Burns WBO LW Champion
Postol WBC SLW Champion
Indongo WBA and IFB SLW Champion
Horn WBO WW Champion
Total = 4 Champions

Lomachenko
Martinez WBO SFW Champion
Linares WBA LW Champion
Pedraza WBO LW Champion
Total = 3 Champions

As you can see it all sums and makes logical sense, I don't sea a reason why everyone would put Lomachenko ahead of Alvarez if we abide by facts.

Nevertheless everyone is enticed to their own opinion like I said these lists are very delicate

Just my two cents.

I like where your thinking is on this.

The only suggestion I would add is that accomplishments and resume are pretty much the same thing. So just reduce your categories to Resume and Skills & Forms and that's a clear, simple way to determine P4P.

[Divine Hammer]

my top 5 p4p

1. lomachenko
2. usyk
3. golovkin
4. fury
5. estrada

i don't count canelo's "wins" against lara, golovkin and trout. his win against jacobs was barely a win and very easily could score a draw. and he barely beat an old past prime bloated cotto. these arent p4p worthy.

[Noelanthony]

P4P is for fighters who are a level above their opposition. It's also not so much about the body of work, but about the latest fight. Canelo has had too many close decisions lately...

Not a Canelo fan Per se but his last 3 fights he has fought 2 of the best guys he could have fought in his division. He fought a guy in GGG that was a silver medalist at the Olympics and a undefeated middleweight that had more successful defences than Hopkins surely a close decision against him should not be frowned upon. He beat up Daniel Jacobs and I was rooting for Jacobs to win

[Noelanthony]

Man, Canelo has amazing skills and he is very very very strong.

He was 175 against Danny that walked in the ring near of 190 and Canelo did a very good job and took the best of Jacobs.

And he has a very high IQ boxing

I don’t know about 190 but he whooped Danny I can’t deny that. I didn’t think Danny would be so lethargic and sloppy. He looked horrible for the first 6 rounds and just looked less horrible in the last 6 rounds..... oh and I put money on Danny to win so from the 9th round I just wanted Canelo to knock Danny out so I can get my money’s worth

[ruedboy]

P4P is very delicate to talk about. IMHO I think that there are 3 factors who determine who is best P4P and I list them in importance order.

1 - Accomplisments
2 - Resume
3 - Skills and Forms

I rate skills and forms as the least important because you can look flashy against a c fighter but almost no one looks flashy against an elite opponent.

My top 3
1 - Terence Crawford
2 - Saul Alvarez
3 - Vasily Lomachenko

Here is my breakdown:

Terence Crawford
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion
1 Undisputed 140 Championship
2 Lineal 135 and 140 Championships

Resume = Best Wins
Postol , Gamboa, Horn, Benavidez Jr.

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Crawford is ambidextrous and can box and fight on both stances. what else can you ask for? The dude is mean, can counter, has power in both hands is clever and has very nice defense altough I'd put his defense as his Achilles Heel. he get's clipped often and a guy his size who can punch might hurt him.


Canelo Alvarez
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion (I know he's 168 regular but on paper he's still a champ)
1 Lineal 160 and Championship

Resume = Best Wins
GGG, Jacobs, Lara, Trout,

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Canelo has it all, great combinations, power, quick hands, good timing, and a very underrated slick defense, his problems are on the heavy feet arguably attributed to his knee problems and the stamina department.


Vasily Lomachenko
Accomplisments
3 Division Champion

Resume = Best Wins
Russel Jr, Walters , Rigondeaux. Linares.

Skills and Forms = Eyetest
Skillwise I think Loma is the better of the 3, the guy has offense, defense, reflexes, timing, power and his cardio is monster.


Now if we had to give these 3 fighters a grade upon those 3 criterias I would have them like these

1 - Acomplishments
Crawford A / Canelo B / Lomachenko C

2 - Resume
Canelo A / Crawford B / Lomahcenko C

3 Skills and Forms
Lomachenko A / Crawford B / Canelo C

Now following these you can see why I got my list the way I got it, note that I got these list based on 2 factual criterias which are accomplishments and resume the thrid one (Skills and Forms) is a more subjectie one.

Crawford has earned more medals, Canelo has beaten the better opposition and Loma has looked the better.

Now if someone is gonna tell me that Canelo's resume is tainted because of controversial judging I don't care because like I said it's not based on opinion it's based on facts. Just like a lot of people thought Castillo beat Mayweather a long time ago, it don't matter because Mayweather was declared as the winner of that fight.

Another thing we could factor is the number of champions who each one of these guys have defeated:

Canelo
Trout WBA SWW Champion
Cotto WBC MW Champion
Smith WBO SWW Champion
GGG WBC and WBA Champion
Fielding WBA SMW Champion
Jacobs IBF MW Champion
Total = 6 champions

Crawford
Burns WBO LW Champion
Postol WBC SLW Champion
Indongo WBA and IFB SLW Champion
Horn WBO WW Champion
Total = 4 Champions

Lomachenko
Martinez WBO SFW Champion
Linares WBA LW Champion
Pedraza WBO LW Champion
Total = 3 Champions

As you can see it all sums and makes logical sense, I don't sea a reason why everyone would put Lomachenko ahead of Alvarez if we abide by facts.

Nevertheless everyone is enticed to their own opinion like I said these lists are very delicate

Just my two cents.

Good opinion piece but you mistake your opinions for facts.
Example: "Alvarez has beaten better opposition", or "Loma has looked better". These are opinions, they might be true, but there's no way to prove it. It's not like saying Alvarez has 52 wins, which can be verified by checking a few sources.
P4P is always opinion and you can argue facts but you can't argue opinions.

[R-C]

my top 5 p4p

1. lomachenko
2. usyk
3. golovkin
4. fury
5. estrada

i don't count canelo's "wins" against lara, golovkin and trout. his win against jacobs was barely a win and very easily could score a draw. and he barely beat an old past prime bloated cotto. these arent p4p worthy.

What do you mean you don't count those wins? He beat them whether you like it or not.

He beat Cotto on his comfortable weight

He beat Lara 7-5 (I do think that Lara should blame himself)

He beat GGG on his own game

And Jacob's fight was not even close, you need to learn how to score or maybe your blinded hate against Canelo is preventing you to have a rational scoring

[Godeyez]

Canelo is P4P numero uno. Both Loma and Crawford havent fought elite fighters. Loma lost to Salido and got dropped to Linares, which Linares is a featherfisted who has lost badly to bums. Salido a B level fighter. When Canelo fights opponents who Crawford and Loma fought , Canelo destroys them.