Comments Thread For: Wilder, Fury, Joshua: Big Three Playing Heavyweight Roulette

[N/A]

One of them talked about it and one of them did it...

It’s not rocket science.

Klitschko vs. Wilder was going to happen in 2016. The only thing that messed it up was Klitschko losing unexpectedly in 2015.

Hearn did it after the loss and long layoff. UK fans are more dedicated than US fans. After the loss, there wasn't massive money in a Klitschko vs. Wilder fight anymore, whereas Klitschko vs. Joshua was still a huge fight.

You can't hold that against Wilder. Not his fault Klitscho lost the same year he won his belt. Didn't really give Wilder much time to unify, especially considering Klitschko's April fight was signed before Wilder even won his title.

[N/A]

Except we know that post was wrong don't we? He didn't face Briggs in October.

The WBA & WBO forcing Klitschko to fight Fury doesn't change the fact that Team Klitschko never had any intention of pursuing a Wilder fight in 2015. 2016 was always the plan for that fight.

[Redgloveman]

Klitschko vs. Wilder was going to happen in 2016. The only thing that messed it up was Klitschko losing unexpectedly in 2015.

Hearn did it after the loss and long layoff. UK fans are more dedicated than US fans. After the loss, there wasn't massive money in a Klitschko vs. Wilder fight anymore, whereas Klitschko vs. Joshua was still a huge fight.

You can't hold that against Wilder. Not his fault Klitscho lost the same year he won his belt. Didn't really give Wilder much time to unify, especially considering Klitschko's April fight was signed before Wilder even won his title.

This reads as a feeble defence of what was a weak point to begin with.

[N/A]

This reads as a feeble defence of what was a weak point to begin with.

If my point was weak, you could counter it.

But you can't, because, ya know, calendars.

Wilder wins his title in early 2015 after Klitschko vs Jennings is already agreed to. Finkel says two quick defenses before Klitschko. Wilder makes those two quick defenses while Klitschko isn't available anyway, then Klitschko loses to Fury.

So when was this unification supposed to take place?

[Redgloveman]

If my point was weak, you could counter it.

But you can't, because, ya know, calendars.

Wilder wins his title in early 2015 after Klitschko vs Jennings is already agreed to. Finkel says two quick defenses before Klitschko. Wilder makes those two quick defenses while Klitschko isn't available anyway, then Klitschko loses to Fury.

So when was this unification supposed to take place?

I didn't go into why your argument was weak for the same reason that I don't argue with flat-earthers; it's a waste of everybody's time. But since you insist...

Firstly, your point is predicated on Finkel saying

"he wanted Wilder to make two quick defenses before turning his sights to Klitschko."

I haven't ever seen this quote you refer to. The closest I can get to it is this

https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-not-rushed-klitschko-says-finkel--86714

which is a far cry from what you suggest (above) - As far as I can see you're basing an argument on an inaccurate premise which is a fundamental failure of logic. I'll happily concede this point if you can find a credible source for your quote. If so then please find it and link it, if not your argument crumbles at the very first hurdle.

Secondly, and perhaps more tellingly, refer back to what I've already said

One of them talked about it and one of them did it...

You don't get credit from the people who matter in this game, or in life, by talking about things without backing that talk up; because we all know there are a lot of BS artists out there and unless you back up your talk then you're probably one of them.

Since you mention the irrefutable nature of calendars: consider that Deontay Wilder has been pro for 4 years and 11 months longer than Anthony Joshua and at the point Joshua fought Klitschko had 20 more fights on his record - they took up boxing at roughly the same age.

Joshua fought and beat Klitschko. Wilder hasn't ever even ducked Klitschko because he never got close to fighting him.

The result of this is that Anthony Joshua is the no1 ranked heavyweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine & boxrec - which are considered the two most credible sources on such matters). Wilder and his team allowed that to happen by sitting on their hands as Joshua collected the belts. Now they're playing catchup and frankly getting laughed at as they make unrealistic demands for a 50-50 split which the whole world can see they don't deserve. You're trying to say that this is the result of Wilder being so terribly unfortunate that he allowed a far less experienced fighter to come overtake him?

It reads like fangirl logic. Pussy logic. Wilder and his team allowed Joshua to overtake them. Meekly. That's what happens when you have a hungry competitor and an also-ran competing in the same race. Now Wilder seems to be trying to sell his WBC belt and is getting shit on in comments sections all over the internet.

You also wrote this:

"UK fans are more dedicated than US fans. After the loss, there wasn't massive money in a Klitschko vs. Wilder fight anymore, whereas Klitschko vs. Joshua was still a huge fight."

.... since when has Wilder been concerned about 'massive money'? Wider has never made anything even approaching 'massive money' and just turned down $100m because of "loyalty". He has frequently talked about "one face, one name, one champion" yet he turns down his best opportunity to actually achieve this. So that's a feeble point to try to make.

Further to this, when have you ever known the UK to be the considered the land of "massive money" in boxing?... Let me answer that for you: never. I've seen you yourself argue that Wilder was right not to take any Joshua fight in the UK because he could make far more money in the States; because Vegas tickets provide far more revenue than Wembley seats and US PPV is more expensive than UK PPV. But now you're telling me that the UK is some fabled land of 'huge fights'. Poor Wilder, huh? If only he was in the biggest boxing market in the world... oh wait, he is.

...

So yeah, bruh, basically your argument sucks.

[N/A]

Firstly, your point is predicated on Finkel saying

"he wanted Wilder to make two quick defenses before turning his sights to Klitschko."

I haven't ever seen this quote you refer to. The closest I can get to it is this

https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-n...-finkel--86714

"It's not the right thing yet. Give him a couple of fights" is a far cry from Finkel wanting him to make a couple quick defenses before trying to make a Klitschko fight?!?

One of them talked about it and one of them did it...

You keep saying that, but it's two different things. One of them talked about ending Klitschko's reign and beating him for his belts. The other didn't do that. The other beat a much older Klitschko who had already been defeated in embarrassing fashion and then sat on the shelf for a year and a half.

It was a great win for Joshua, especially considering his level of experience. Joshua is a great fighter. I already consider him an all time great. He's accomplished much more than Wilder in a far shorter time.

But even if Joshua is the greatest fighter that ever lived, it doesn't change how calendars work. Wilder never had the chance to unify with Klitschko.

If you want to argue that Wilder was brought along slowly and therefore ran out of time to unify with Klitschko because by the time he became champ, Klitschko's reign was almost over. Sure. That's true. Nobody's dis*****g that Wilder was brought along slowly. His own team made that very clear.

He had no technical skill, essentially no amateur background, nothing other than a punch. Why would they rush him?

[Robbie Barrett]

https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-not-rushed-klitschko-says-finkel--86714

Even back then Finkel was talking and filling Wilders head with BS numbers.

“Look, (Wilder) is a baby winning the title. It was his first title fight, they'll be a time for unification, they'll be a time for all those things, he could go and Povetkin (the No. 2 contender) in Russia and make $10 million,” Finkel said to the Tuscaloosa News. “It's not the right thing yet. Give him a couple of fights, maybe bring something back to Alabama. Let him develop just like any other athlete. They don't take someone who is a great college prospect and throw him right in. And this kid is a great prospect.”

[Redgloveman]

"It's not the right thing yet. Give him a couple of fights" is a far cry from Finkel wanting him to make a couple quick defenses before trying to make a Klitschko fight?!?

Yes, and a poster with your knowledge of the game shouldn't fein incredulity given that we're talking about the words of a boxing promoter here. You're twisting Finkel's words to suit your own narrative. Klitschko was the champion at the time Finkel made that statement. If Wilder and his team had any real intention of unifying then you can be damn sure that they wouldn't have been so mealy-mouthed about it. Finkel should have been building the fight at that point if he was interested in making it, not pouring cold water on the suggestion...

Your argument falls down on the difference between your report of what Finkel said and what he actually said.

"Give him a couple of fights, maybe bring something back to Alabama. Let him develop just like any other athlete"

is a very vaguely worded statement,

Your alternative: "two quick title defences before turning his sights to Klitschko" suggests a far more positive intent. You're evidently basing your entire argument on a very questionable and favourable interpretation of what is a vague statement to begin with. That's what makes your argument fundamentally weak.

What's more, you're acting as if Wilder had to be unifying the belts in order to fight Klitschko which doesn't make sense to me either. If Wilder was truly confident of unifying the division as he has always claimed then he needn't have picked up the WBC strap before gunning for the major player in the division. Anyone with real intentions to be the best in the world should be looking straight at the champion, not tip-toeing around them.

These are the reasons that I criticised your argument.

[FlyingFJ]

Very true

No.. eddie is the reason for all the hate on AJ... Miller is the toughest opponent.. but, Wilder agreed to 15m to fight AJ in the U.K. eddie went another direction. That's not Wilder's fault.. I understand that AJ couldn't accept the 50 million bc of his contract with sky.. but eddie openly admits that he wanted to build the fight first with Povetkin. Wilder felt disrespected.. and now wants 50/50 which is fair.. considering, both men are risking their lives equally.. and AJ isn't shadow boxing in the ring by himself.. at Wembley in front of 70,000 brits.. and Wilder is the biggest and most interesting Draw vs AJ in the UK.. and he brings the entire American market.. and 50/50 split will give eddie and AJ the highest paycheck to date.. even if they give Wilder 50/50.. but the problem is greed. Eddie thinks he can do whatever he wants and make all the cash.. while the two fighters beat each other to death. Smh.. *** eddie.. snake headed b*stard.. im not hating on AJ no moe bc of that fool.. it took me a while.. but its these lame azz promoters/ managers that are ***ing everything up.. this goes for shelly.. u slimy rat bastard.. and frank warren's pop eyed, goldfish looking azz!!! An triple *** bob arum's fat killer clown from outerspace looking azz! Lol. Its about the fighters taking the risks.. not the pieces of ***** taking advantage of fighters and fixing their lips to say what another man risking his life deserves.. *** them.. Im turning on the promoters now.. us fans need to band together.. U.S and U.K fans.. and lets pay all fighters what they deserve for risking their lives to entertain us!

Yes i totally agree. Fans are fighting because of the promoters. And top HW not fighting each othe, again because of the promoters. I won't watch any of the up coming fights for the top 3. That is my decision.

[LoadedWraps]

I'm tired of playing these games! Can't wait for the new blood: Efe Ajagba, Joe Joyce, Tony Yoka, Oscar Rivas, and Oleksandr Usyk! Salute to Adam Kownacki! Kownacki vs. Ortiz, make it happen!

Fuey beats every one of those cucks with a hand tied behind his back.

Fury is the A-side now and will continue to be. AJ and Wilder are paper champs, keeping the belts warm until Fury chooses to re-acquire them.