Are there any posters on here willing to admit they had Wilder wrong?

[Granath]

So I didn't mean to patronise with that last post. I still don't understand how you can't recognise the disruptive effect DAZN's entry has had in the US market because the impact has been obvious way beyond this fight? You think that Canelo deal hasn't changed the landscape?

You say that the DAZN offer is a realistic assessment of his worth but you must be aware that new entrants to mature markets are going to pay more than the going rate and thus drive that rate upwards? Just how much do you think Wilder has been earning for his fights with Ortiz, Stiverne etc. You think $20m for Wilder v Breazeale was always the true market rate? You think he's getting that rate now? Exactly how are they going to recoup that in their broadcasting model if they don't even think it merits PPV status?

Finally, you've repeatedly compared the offers made by Hearn for a fight in the UK to these latest offers for a fight in the US and yet you've never acknowledged the very different market conditions that apply in the two territories. Without significant US broadcast revenues due to the time difference, there's a hard ceiling on those fights and given that they were already close to maxing that market the offers Hearn made were entirely consistent with that ceiling and what the two fighters brought to the table in commercial drawing power and titles etc. At that time the estimates for the fight in the US were comparable.

It looks like Hearn has given up trying to get Wilder to the UK, so of course the offers have changed, but your immediate assumption that it's due to an undervaluing of Wilder's drawing power doesn't take account of a far more fundamental change in the conditions. Namely a change in location and the heating up of the US market in the meantime.

Karma given for a great discussion. It happens all too rarely here and I have enjoyed it. Thank you.

You make a good point on the different markets. Though if all they could pay Wilder was $15M for the fight in the UK it doesn't change the overall point - that Wilder isn't ducking but waiting until there's fair market value for that fight. If a promoter can only afford to pay GGG $2M to fight Canelo again because the fight is in Mexico City that doesn't mean GGG is ducking Canelo. It just means the promoter is being very short-sighted (and that's being kind) and the fighter is waiting for a reasonable offer. That's been the whole point of this thread - this isn't ducking but holding out for a reasonable offer.

You made another good point - perhaps you're more right on DAZN than I've considered in the past. They're throwing around some very large checks in a bet to capture the market. I think that it's a market that's coming back to reality. With HBO pulling out in favor of making their own content, the market got very soft with few choices. DAZN can be seen as a correction to that market and them taking advantage of the lull in the US market to quickly capture market share. So is it a boost or more of a return to normalcy? Perhaps some of both?

[lfc19titles]

Some of his few fans are the wbc guy who was banned are back to spread fake news

Apparently it’s ok to fight for 3m in showtime than Breazeale for 20m on dazn lmao

[Jax teller]

The fight wasn't going to be on PPV in the US, so that excuse doesn't hold any water.

They didn't want the clash and didn't Wilder have arm surgery anyway so he couldn't fight as he needed an excuse for getting embarassed by Fury.

[Mirror Universe]

Apparently it’s ok to fight for 3m in showtime than Breazeale for 20m on dazn lmao

You have no way of knowing what he actually gets paid.

[Mirror Universe]

They didn't want the clash

What clash? Why would Wilder be a clash but Povetkin wouldn't be a clash? Doesn't make any sense.

[Jax teller]

What clash? Why would Wilder be a clash but Povetkin wouldn't be a clash? Doesn't make any sense.

A clash for the casual American interest, casual Americans aren't going to watch the Povetkin no matter what.

[Mirror Universe]

A clash for the casual American interest, casual Americans aren't going to watch the Povetkin no matter what.

Not only does an afternoon fight not clash with an evening fight, but the fights weren't even on the same day. You're literally making zero sense.

[lfc19titles]

You have no way of knowing what he actually gets paid.

Haha back on damage control with your fake news

Keep pretending about the side money, it doesn’t exist, wilder has been exposed as a ducker

Haymon should be addressed too but that’s another issue, he did what’s best for pbc with Shirley by ordering wilder to stay and then down way
More
Money again

This will all blow up, at least Shirley was talking about next year in fighting Joshua, exposing him as not wanting it all along and just putting on an act

What was funny was wilder saying this fight gets made by two teams coming together sat down

This is after them doing a fake offer with a 24 hour deadline via email and social media

Refusing meetings for the fight

Asking for a 2 fight contract at the start before being exposed now with their fans saying that was the reason it did not happen

The public have seen through their lies boy

[Mirror Universe]

Keep pretending about the side money, it doesn’t exist

Okay, so when a Joshua purse goes public for the first time ever on June 1, you will insist that filed purse is accurate too, right? Just want to make sure you're going to be consistent.

[Holler]

Karma given for a great discussion. It happens all too rarely here and I have enjoyed it. Thank you.

You make a good point on the different markets. Though if all they could pay Wilder was $15M for the fight in the UK it doesn't change the overall point - that Wilder isn't ducking but waiting until there's fair market value for that fight. If a promoter can only afford to pay GGG $2M to fight Canelo again because the fight is in Mexico City that doesn't mean GGG is ducking Canelo. It just means the promoter is being very short-sighted (and that's being kind) and the fighter is waiting for a reasonable offer. That's been the whole point of this thread - this isn't ducking but holding out for a reasonable offer.

You made another good point - perhaps you're more right on DAZN than I've considered in the past. They're throwing around some very large checks in a bet to capture the market. I think that it's a market that's coming back to reality. With HBO pulling out in favor of making their own content, the market got very soft with few choices. DAZN can be seen as a correction to that market and them taking advantage of the lull in the US market to quickly capture market share. So is it a boost or more of a return to normalcy? Perhaps some of both?

Likewise, at times I've given up on his forum due to the sheer volume of trolling but I have enjoyed this discussion.

On the location, I would only say that it may be difficult for US fans to appreciate just how deep the level of su****ion is on both the fairness of scorecards and also other aspects around selection of referee, conditions at the arena etc etc. Most people feel Fury was robbed on just that kind of setup, why would AJ risk that?

Joshua has been fighting in front of 90k in his hometown, he is the number one, unified champion, earns massive revenue outside the ring and has far better alternative options to earn should a Wilder fight not be agreed. Or as US fans have taught us he's the A side. Is a promoter really being short sighted in maintaining this position unless a good reason is provided to abandon it?

So the impetus to move the fight to the US to pursue what was at the time a marginal rise in his purse to accommodate team Wilders desires to maximise return simply wasn't there. AJ makes 60m+ next year without this fight, hes still improving as a fighter, it's not easy to exert leverage on that position. Now of course it looks like they will fight in the US first, but likely on a promotion they control.

On the second point, it's too early to tell if the current bullish activity in US boxing can translate into revenues. Can the PPV model stand alongside the subscription services? Or does something have to give?