Stiverne a 9/1 underdog against Joyce is crazy.

[Marchegiano]

never is a long time.

he did? by beating arreola? by beating arreola twice?

I'm not real clear what has you vexed, but, yeah his wins, like Arreola, were more from the K2 era than the present.

So regardless of if you reckon he was ever good my point was all you have to go off of is dated performances.

[4truth]

If Stiverne had shown any signs of having trained for this fight I'd agree, in fact I wanted to drop about $100 on him. Unfortunately, Stiverne doesn't appear to have trained even a little. I was hoping he'd lost about 20 pounds since his embarrassing showing in the Wilder rematch, instead he's actually put on nearly 20.

9-1? I would need at least 50-1