What does P4P mean to you?

[PRboxingfan]

I hear so many people saying that P4P means moving up in weight and getting titles. If that were so, no natural heavyweight would ever be P4P.

P4P is a measurement of skills a boxer possesses, plain and simple. It is a comparisson of boxers based on how they would perform against each other if everything were equal. It's been said here before but I think I have to restate it for those who are not paying attention: P4P is a term first used to describe Sugar Ray Robinson's skills since he was heads and shoulders above anyone else in boxing at the time. Yes, he moved up and down in weight, but that's now why the term was coined; it was coined because he had the speed, power, and skill to beat anyone so long as they were equal in weight/size.

It's a hypothetical and objective thing, the P4P rankings are, but when we measure skill we can only measure it against the competition that a fighter has. Yes, PBF appears to be the most gifted fighter this side of Sugar Ray Robinson, but unless he proves it by fighting other skilled fighters (and top-10 ranked), people will always question his skills since he keeps fighting B-class opposition such as Chop-Chop, Gatti, and Sharmba Mitchell.

I still believe that PBF is the best P4P fighter out there but he is losing ground to fighters like Winky and Pac who keep showing they can hang, or even beat, those fighters who everyone thinks are more skilled/better fighters than they are (like Winky beating Moseley and Trinidad or Pac demolishing Barrera and Morales).

[Boxing Analyst]

I hear so many people saying that P4P means moving up in weight and getting titles. If that were so, no natural heavyweight would ever be P4P.

P4P is a measurement of skills a boxer possesses, plain and simple. It is a comparisson of boxers based on how they would perform against each other if everything were equal. It's been said here before but I think I have to restate it for those who are not paying attention: P4P is a term first used to describe Sugar Ray Robinson's skills since he was heads and shoulders above anyone else in boxing at the time. Yes, he moved up and down in weight, but that's now why the term was coined; it was coined because he had the speed, power, and skill to beat anyone so long as they were equal in weight/size.

It's a hypothetical and objective thing, the P4P rankings are, but when we measure skill we can only measure it against the competition that a fighter has. Yes, PBF appears to be the most gifted fighter this side of Sugar Ray Robinson, but unless he proves it by fighting other skilled fighters (and top-10 ranked), people will always question his skills since he keeps fighting B-class opposition such as Chop-Chop, Gatti, and Sharmba Mitchell.

I still believe that PBF is the best P4P fighter out there but he is losing ground to fighters like Winky and Pac who keep showing they can hang, or even beat, those fighters who everyone thinks are more skilled/better fighters than they are (like Winky beating Moseley and Trinidad or Pac demolishing Barrera and Morales).

very nice post. its all here.

[Kball15]

it means elite

[K-DOGG]

I keep seeing lists, but I dont knoww what it means? Do most people consider it boxing skill? Because if so, wouldn't james toney be on there?

i always thought about it was a person who could move up/down weight classes and still win. aka mayweather, winky, probally JT, prob calzag. but this is a reason why i cant put pac on there because if pac moves up, i see him losing. anyone?

Pound-4-pound is a mythical title based on skill, abilities, and attributes. Fighting the best helps to determine who more than likely deserves the recognition as p4p best; but, in reality, has nothing to do with the merits of such a claim. The performance of fighters are the determining factors...how good a certain fighter is in regards to every other fighter around, regardless of size or weight class. The arguable two best pound-4-pound fighters in the world, Wright and Mayweather, are pretty equal in this regard; but Floyd's performance over Judah was clear, where Wright's against Taylor, obviously, was not....even though I think it was. Performance is the key to determining who's the best p4p, which is why Manny Pacquiao is also in the running, though I have him at # 3 at the moment.

Back to Mayweather and Wright...Should Floyd fight unnoteworthy fighters exclusively and Wright fight the best and both have equally dominant performances, then you have an argument for Wright being the best. As of now, no one has looked better than Floyd Mayweather over the last few years, IMO. Pacquio has been very impressive in his own right; but he also lost against Morales...and the Morales he beat is arguably on the downside, given his previous loss to Raheem. Mayweather and Wright, on the other hand, haven't lost in quite some time or not at all....the first Castillo fight being the possible exception; but Floyd made up for it. Winky, also, didn't looke great againt Soliman; and only managed a draw against Taylor, who ranked below him on the pound-4-pound rankings, which is why Winky remains where his is.

Now, while Winky had trouble with the best middleweight and couldn't secure a win, Mayweather did secure a win against one of the best fighters in his weight class. Zab Judah, while no longer the World Champ by the time he climbed into the ring with Floyd, would still have been favored over Baldomir in a rematch, no? Could Floyd beat Margarito? That's up for grabs, at this point. We don't know.

We do know that Wright couldn't defeat Taylor convincingly, hence the draw and the wide disparity of opinion among fans and pundits. Mayweather, on the other hand, clearly bested Judah...the former World Welterweight Champion.

Floyd will have to fight and lose to Margarito before Wright can advance. If Wright had beaten Taylor, then maybe he should rank above Mayweather; but that's still up for grabs given Jermain's unimpressive perforemances against Hopkins on two occassions. Until Floyd loses, looks horrible or less than dominant against a fighter he should dominate or Winky dominates another quality champion, the bar does not move between those two; and likewise with Pacquiao. Manny wasn't overwhelmingly impressive against Larios, so he doesn't advance. Should Manny look more impressive against high calibre competition, he makes a strong case for himself to advance and puts pressure on both Mayweather and Wright to look good.


Remember, pound-4-pound is mythical and about all around boxing skill and performance....therefore, it is purely subjective in nature; but does require some astute observation to properly place figheters.


Hope that helps.

[iron mike tyson]

it means elite

exactly
regardles of skill and what not as long as your fighting and beating the best you should be recognised as p4p#1 even if you aint got 1 ounce of skill as floyd mayweather

[DLT]

I just don't see how you can classify it as "if they were in the same weightclass"

Because if you are thinking that way, then how in the hell do you compare Wlad vs Pac (You can think Calzaghe vs Pac if you don't want a heavyweight). Wlad has a huge reach and great power... Thats something Pac CAN NEVER HAVE.

So how do you even think about that. "Well if Pac had a bigger reach and more power and grew 2 feet then he probably would knock out Wlad"? Wtf? You can't even think like that because it just won't happen so in my opinion, you can't compare everyone on one list in terms of "skill at the same weightclass".

To me thats never been hard. Why cant you do that? As long as you keep it relative then I think its very easy to see. You say someone like Wlad but thats why 95% of the time HW's dont make the list because pound for pound there is no way he has a chance against Pac.

What is so hard about you trying to compare Calzaghes style to Pac? I could picture Pac trying to rush him but Calzaghe boxing very well and moving, sort of like JMM did after the 1st round.

I said that there is no one pound for pound who is better then Floyd but I remember wondering back in the day when X beat Hopkins & Tito who would win? I remember saying that if Hopkins was in Floyd's weight class then he would give him trouble. Think about a guy that is Floyd's size but has Hopkins style. Think about Hopkins trying to bully Floyd & rough him up like he did Holmes & Echols.

I dont think its that hard to do personaly

[sleazyfellow]

p4p for me means...sugar ray robinson, henry armstrong, ali, just to name a few

[jai mari078]

It's a list of current fighters who are at the top of the game, beating the best opponents available and minimizing losses/slip-ups. P4P to me means Floyd Mayweather.

A lot of people confuse p4p. Like the people that think Floyd should be p4p #1. He may be the best boxer as far as skills, but until you display those skills against all the elite opposition, and not a bunch of B and C class fighters it doesn't make you p4p. Based on opposition I would have to say that Winky is p4p #1, I know he won't get it but he deserves it. Floyd has the potential, but just because he has the potential doesn't make him p4p. If you don't want to hear it from me this is a post from a Floyd fan as well from the "Is Margarito next for Floy thread." I can respect a when a guy is a fan of a fighte,can be objective, and not have blinders and recognize the facts.

"I like Mayweather as well, but facts are facts. He hasn't fought an elite fighter in some time. I still think that he is the best P4P fighter in the world, but he doesn't deserve the P4P title if he's not fighting anybody. He should simply fight Margartio and then move forward from there. Fear of a loss is not a legitimate excuse."

[blockhead]

p4p nowadays is a way for fraud to further hype himself. HE IS NOT p4p No. 1.

[jai mari078]

Pound-4-pound is a mythical title based on skill, abilities, and attributes. Fighting the best helps to determine who more than likely deserves the recognition as p4p best; but, in reality, has nothing to do with the merits of such a claim. The performance of fighters are the determining factors...how good a certain fighter is in regards to every other fighter around, regardless of size or weight class. The arguable two best pound-4-pound fighters in the world, Wright and Mayweather, are pretty equal in this regard; but Floyd's performance over Judah was clear, where Wright's against Taylor, obviously, was not....even though I think it was. Performance is the key to determining who's the best p4p, which is why Manny Pacquiao is also in the running, though I have him at # 3 at the moment.

Back to Mayweather and Wright...Should Floyd fight unnoteworthy fighters exclusively and Wright fight the best and both have equally dominant performances, then you have an argument for Wright being the best. As of now, no one has looked better than Floyd Mayweather over the last few years, IMO. Pacquio has been very impressive in his own right; but he also lost against Morales...and the Morales he beat is arguably on the downside, given his previous loss to Raheem. Mayweather and Wright, on the other hand, haven't lost in quite some time or not at all....the first Castillo fight being the possible exception; but Floyd made up for it. Winky, also, didn't looke great againt Soliman; and only managed a draw against Taylor, who ranked below him on the pound-4-pound rankings, which is why Winky remains where his is.

Now, while Winky had trouble with the best middleweight and couldn't secure a win, Mayweather did secure a win against one of the best fighters in his weight class. Zab Judah, while no longer the World Champ by the time he climbed into the ring with Floyd, would still have been favored over Baldomir in a rematch, no? Could Floyd beat Margarito? That's up for grabs, at this point. We don't know.

We do know that Wright couldn't defeat Taylor convincingly, hence the draw and the wide disparity of opinion among fans and pundits. Mayweather, on the other hand, clearly bested Judah...the former World Welterweight Champion.

Floyd will have to fight and lose to Margarito before Wright can advance. If Wright had beaten Taylor, then maybe he should rank above Mayweather; but that's still up for grabs given Jermain's unimpressive perforemances against Hopkins on two occassions. Until Floyd loses, looks horrible or less than dominant against a fighter he should dominate or Winky dominates another quality champion, the bar does not move between those two; and likewise with Pacquiao. Manny wasn't overwhelmingly impressive against Larios, so he doesn't advance. Should Manny look more impressive against high calibre competition, he makes a strong case for himself to advance and puts pressure on both Mayweather and Wright to look good.


Remember, pound-4-pound is mythical and about all around boxing skill and performance....therefore, it is purely subjective in nature; but does require some astute observation to properly place figheters.


Hope that helps.

The reason that Winky did not have completely dominant performances over some of the best competition is because thats what happens when you fight the best. Did you expect him to just walk over Jermain Taylor like he is some kind of scrub, and if I remember correctly Winky completely dominated Trinidad, and Mosely twice.He also pushed Vargas to the limit when Vargas was in his prime, and I am a Vargas fan but I can admit the truth. You should probably think about what you are saying before you say it. I don't mind people voicing there opinions, but when they are just making ignorant comments without actually thinking about what they are saying bothers me. On to Floyd you said that Floyd beat Judah when he was best in his weight class. Did anyone honestly think Judah was gonna beat him. Should we be impressed with that after he was coming off a loss to Baldomir.A guy who has nine losses PLEASE!!! Judah has never showed up and always melts down in big fights. I'm sorry that doesn't really impress me much less say to me that Floyd is p4p. It's not hard to dominate opponents when they are B an C class fighters. One more thing Winky has never ducked or backed down from anyone, I can't say the same thing for Floyd.