Comments Thread For: Ward: Kovalev Not Same Fighter, But He'll Be Hard To Deal With

[Boxing_1013]

Would it make a difference if I did?

You may not think Ward outlanded Bika. Compubox does and not by an insignificant margin. I'll take their word (and my eyes) over yours.

The more you post the more I believe you simply don't understand how to score a boxing match. In case you missed it, defense counts when you land after causing your opponent to miss. Ward's pretty darn good at that.

I think punches thrown are interesting to analyze a lot of times, as they are largely objective whereas punches landed can be a little bit subjective. Especially when evaluating a fight and trying to put the stats into context as far as what you saw and what the stats are showing.

Ward only threw 400 punches against Bika...and it said he landed 59% for a total of 235!! That's crazy to me. An unbelievably, literally, high percentage. What did you think when you watched the fight? lol ;0

Ward threw 573 against Froch, compared to Froch's 683. So didn't get completely outworked, and in that fight I did see Ward do well at hitting and not getting hit, and out-dueling Froch. I thought it was close, but the punches thrown stats back up what I saw - Froch was a little busier but Ward was probably a little more precise and executed a little better on O and D. But the stats say he landed 243-156 against Froch! I did not see that at all. That would mean Ward is landing an average of 20 a round to Froch's 13. Did not see that at all, and the two judges who scored it 7-5 for Ward had it about right imo.

Barrera threw 722 punches against Ward and only got credit for landing 111! That is just not what I saw at all. Ward only threw 463 and apparently landed 166. I did not see that at all! Lol. I just call it how I see it.

A good defensive fighter can win a fight throwing 80% of the total of his opponents' punches. Has happened a lot. Usually 8-4 type of fights but can still happen. When you are being out-thrown by 250 punches, I mean I can't ever recall seeing a fight like that and feeling the guy who got outworked by that number won the fight, let alone won it by a shutout score as you suggest.

If you are getting out-thrown by that amount - a lot of those are getting through. A lot more than Barrera or Bika got credit for.

Again, if you disagree, please post your scores round by round from those fights.

[Granath]

Man I really don't think you've watched those fights lol. You keep making that clear. If you did - please post your scores. Thanks.

Defense does count, if you are hitting while not getting hit. Simply avoiding punches is not enough to win rounds. Mayweather was great at it, and he usually outworked his opponent and outlanded them. And he was much slicker than Ward.

Usually when a fighter is out-thrown by 200 punches in multiple fights, he is also out-landed. That's what I see in the Bika fight and a few other of Ward's that have similar stats. As a fan of his, you know he is not particularly hard to hit anyway, he is no Mayweather. That is not really his style. He is slick enough but he is there to be hit much more than a Floyd or other defensive fighters were.

Fine, Ward won by shutout in each fight. Ward won by a round in each fight. Are we any further along in the conversation? It's childish. Grow up. I don't remember my exact scoring from those fights but I remember Ward beating Bika by a few rounds (4?). I remember that fight because I was wondering where I remembered Bika from and it finally came to me - The Contender series on TV (I liked that show but they needed to show more of the fights but I digress). I know Ward beat Rodriguez handily. I'm not going to waste my time rewatching those fights just to satisfy your curiosity. You go do it.

It doesn't matter what you see in the Bika fight. You keep repeating that same shtick. It matters what happened. Bika didn't outland Ward. He threw 200+ more punches but missed 235+ more times. Those are the facts. If you want to say that judges, Compubox, ringside observers all got it wrong you're free to do so as much as you're free to tilt at windmills. But it still doesn't change the facts and it doesn't make your opinion fact or even particularly valid.

Again, we're back to this fictitious grand conspiracy. Compubox is wrong, all of these other punches landed, Judges were all corrupt and ringside observers don't know what they're talking about. I'm not going to argue with you if you say that water isn't wet. It isn't and it doesn't matter if you think it is. You're so desperate to prove something that you can't that you'll simply see what you want to see. I can't help you with that.

[Boxing_1013]

Fine, Ward won by shutout in each fight. Ward won by a round in each fight. Are we any further along in the conversation? It's childish. Grow up. I don't remember my exact scoring from those fights but I remember Ward beating Bika by a few rounds (4?). I remember that fight because I was wondering where I remembered Bika from and it finally came to me - The Contender series on TV (I liked that show but they needed to show more of the fights but I digress). I know Ward beat Rodriguez handily. I'm not going to waste my time rewatching those fights just to satisfy your curiosity. You go do it.

It doesn't matter what you see in the Bika fight. You keep repeating that same shtick. It matters what happened. Bika didn't outland Ward. He threw 200+ more punches but missed 235+ more times. Those are the facts. If you want to say that judges, Compubox, ringside observers all got it wrong you're free to do so as much as you're free to tilt at windmills. But it still doesn't change the facts and it doesn't make your opinion fact or even particularly valid. I'm not going to argue with you if you say that water isn't wet. It isn't and it doesn't matter if you think it is.

As I just pointed out to you - punches landed are not 'facts'. They are someone's opinion. Anyone who was watched amateur boxing knows this.

I asked about Barrera not Rodriguez.

But again - I am certain you haven't watched the Bika and Barrera fights and I encourage you to actually do so and score them. You just said you had it 8-4 - but the judges had it 12-0? Surely you aren't disagreeing with the holy judges Granath?

Anyone who knows boxing and does not have an agenda, which would be me, will watch those fights and not see much difference between an Andre Ward Sullivan Barrera or Sakio Bika. I know that doesn't suit some people's narrative but it's just the truth. He did not excel at all against those guys, and in truth that is about where his level was. Which is really good. But not anything that special.

Watch the fights and score the rounds, and also please note the punch stats that you see as well.

Also Compubox is an American company and if you didn't know how it worked this article will be helpful:

https://web.archive.org/web/20081007.../compubox.html

"There's two operators who take one fighter each. Each operator has four keys: jab connect, jab miss, power punch connect, power punch miss. Again we're watching one fighter each. As the rounds progress, the jabs and power shots are counted producing stats such as total punches thrown, connected and percentage, jabs thrown, connected and percentage and power punches thrown, connected and percentage." ie - someone's opinion lol.

RJ: In your estimation, how often do the punch stats, compare with the outcome of the fight? As in, if boxer "A" landed more and with a better percentage, how often does boxer "A" win?

BC: "In 21 years of counting (every punch counts!) we've learned that 95 percent of the time, the fighter who throws and lands the most total punches wins the fight. Percentages aren't always a factor, since a fighter can throw and land fewer punches than his opponent, but land the higher percentage and lose the fight. It's more about total punches thrown and landed."

[Ake-Dawg]

As I just pointed out to you - punches landed are not 'facts'. They are someone's opinion. Anyone who was watched amateur boxing knows this.

I asked about Barrera not Rodriguez.

But again - I am certain you haven't watched the Bika and Barrera fights and I encourage you to actually do so and score them. You just said you had it 8-4 - but the judges had it 12-0? Surely you aren't disagreeing with the holy judges Granath?

Anyone who knows boxing and does not have an agenda, which would be me, will watch those fights and not see much difference between an Andre Ward Sullivan Barrera or Sakio Bika. I know that doesn't suit some people's narrative but it's just the truth. He did not excel at all against those guys, and in truth that is about where his level was. Which is really good. But not anything that special.

Watch the fights and score the rounds, and also please note the punch stats that you see as well.

Also Compubox is an American company and if you didn't know how it worked this article will be helpful:

https://web.archive.org/web/20081007.../compubox.html

"There's two operators who take one fighter each. Each operator has four keys: jab connect, jab miss, power punch connect, power punch miss. Again we're watching one fighter each. As the rounds progress, the jabs and power shots are counted producing stats such as total punches thrown, connected and percentage, jabs thrown, connected and percentage and power punches thrown, connected and percentage." ie - someone's opinion lol.

RJ: In your estimation, how often do the punch stats, compare with the outcome of the fight? As in, if boxer "A" landed more and with a better percentage, how often does boxer "A" win?

BC: "In 21 years of counting (every punch counts!) we've learned that 95 percent of the time, the fighter who throws and lands the most total punches wins the fight. Percentages aren't always a factor, since a fighter can throw and land fewer punches than his opponent, but land the higher percentage and lose the fight. It's more about total punches thrown and landed."

Question...how do you reconcile the fact that several other people, including many on press row and and former fighters SEE these fights differently than you?

[daggum]

why do people talk about judging like its legit? its not. the lead promoter literally selects the judges and then pays the judges. if you can't see the conflict of interest and how this affects judging i dont know what to say. why do you think they almost always back the a-side fighter who selected them? more work! more money! its a farce. the ward-kovalev decision was a perfect example and there are tons of them throughout boxing. the official judges are literally the most compromised people scoring a fight. boxing is not a legit sport for this very reason. its regulated theater. you get the results they want because they know you want it.

[blue_dolphin]

lol Ward and Floyd are the best at giving compliments while simultaneously *****ting on you. Ward would be a superstar in politics. he should run in 2020.

[Granath]

But again - I am certain you haven't watched the Bika and Barrera fights...

Watch the fights and score the rounds, and also please note the punch stats that you see as well.

Then we have nothing to discuss, do we? Thanks for closing off the conversation because we weren't getting anywhere. I guess when you can't win you might as well lie and cast aspersions. Good luck with that. It might win you a couple of arguments in grade school but that doesn't fly here.

Also, stop telling people what to do. That's about the 3rd or 4th post you've demanded I do something. Doing so just makes you a conceited a$$hole to go along with your conspiracy foolishness. I don't owe you a damn thing.

[blue_dolphin]

You're right on the money. Also, anyone who knows anything should be aware that Ward is secretly pulling for Kovalev to fail.

doubt it. the more Kovalev wins the more boost to Ward's legacy. he whooped him FIRST. its in the history books. Ward should be the biggest Kov fan because he benefits from that success.

[jmrf4435]

That fight happened in Vegas though? Lol

you are right.

My baad. Floyd at least traveled all around to fight in more parts of the u.s..

[blue_dolphin]

i can't believe there's 10+ pages in this thread arguing who really won Ward vs Bika?? must be some grade A ******* being sniffed around here.