Wilder v Fury - PURSE BID POSTPONED

[kafkod]

That's actually pretty interesting. I have been around various boxing forums for quite a long time now and honestly only ever saw members become staff writers. ESB and BA both did that quite a bit, ESB may still.

To the boxing, I think for the most part most of us are probably tired of arguing about these particular three and just want to see it settled. That said, I've said my piece and you have yours so I reckon that is fine enough except I don't honestly feel like you addressed the technical issues I raise and rather just explained to me your opinion as if I asked open ended what is your opinion of the three matching up. I didn't get super-duper specific, but, I was pretty specific.

Joshua's worst and truest technical criticism is his posture. Wilder's biggest and only real points-boxing strength is his posture. Again, I don't care to actually argue, but, I was more interested in your opinion of what I said to you than your opinion of the three. Forgive me if I missed it but I see no mention of posture in any form of language in your response. If you are satisfied then so am I but if you want to go into posture, position, pivots, or tracks, then I'd definitely read it.

I didn't address what you said about "posture" because, tbh, I have no idea what you mean by that.

But I know for a fact that Wilder has terrible form and balance and that his grasp of basic boxing technique is levels below AJ's.

AJ doesn't telegraph his punches. AJ doesn't bring his right foot forward till it is in front of his left foot while throwing right hands, leaving himself stranded and off balance if the punch doesn't land, which is one glaring technical error Wilder makes time after time.

When was the last time you saw AJ lose his balance and fall over after throwing a punch and missing?

AJ has a fast, accurate jab. Wilder doesn't. AJ has hard, effective hooks and uppercuts. Wilder doesn't. AJ can shorten his punches and hit hard at mid range. Wilder can't.

Neither of them can fight on the inside.

[Marchegiano]

I didn't address what you said about "posture" because, tbh, I have no idea what you mean by that.

But I know for a fact that Wilder has terrible form and balance and that his grasp of basic boxing technique is levels below AJ's.

AJ doesn't telegraph his punches. AJ doesn't bring his right foot forward till it is in front of his left foot while throwing right hands, leaving himself stranded and off balance if the punch doesn't land, which is one glaring technical error Wilder makes time after time.

When was the last time you saw AJ lose his balance and fall over after throwing a punch and missing?

AJ has a fast, accurate jab. Wilder doesn't. AJ has hard, effective hooks and uppercuts. Wilder doesn't. AJ can shorten his punches and hit hard at mid range. Wilder can't.

Neither of them can fight on the inside.

I'll explain posture fighting a bit then. Read it if you're interested but there's really no pressure; you done fine son.

Posture and position explain why punchers stumble around the ring. It's like stance except carries into movements....I'm sure you know what the word means.

Let me move away from the three for a bit so that there is no transitive to consider.

If you look at Marciano and his famous crouch it's all wrong. His posture is clearly not a standard boxer's posture. The stance alone is very different, but, it isn't as if the stance is the only time he crouches deep; he carries the crouch around the ring. Posture.

For Marciano the purpose could not be more clear. He's going to cover bigger distances than the standard posture can and he's going to hide some of the trajectory of his punches.

Marciano often used a technique called the phantom overhead. I'm sure you've at least seen a Marciano clipshow. From the perspective of the fans there is nothing phantom about Marciano ever. From the outside it looks like fantastic movers like Charles are just standing there waiting for Marciano to leap across the ring to smash him up. The reason Ezzard is stood there and appears to be waiting on Rock is because Rock was being deceptive.

Dip right, they can only see a bit of the punch form now. Wing heavy right hooks and let him react. If he's going to try to move and counter now you have him. Keep dipping right and winging right hooks to get the boxer into a rhythm. Now dip right and throw the overhead. The overhead is not an overhand, not a typo nor a misuse, I mean overhead. Kids call them looping sometimes but the actual name is overhead.

The overhead is the devastator, all those bad, off balance, and easily predicted hooks were just to position the boxer for receiving the overhead.

Ezzard's countering successfully all damn night long while Rocky stays one step behind, but, where Rock really put in his effort he was successful and got the punch he meant to get ending the fight on The Rockness Monster's terms. Ezzard has no reason to believe he's doing anything but winning the fight. Marciano has one job to do, sell the idea to Ezzard that Ezzard is winning and then take the rug out from under him.

So, to relate that to Fury...Jesus man, you know it'd take quite a post just to explain what Fury's mid-waist bow is about, but, if you watch boxing with that sort of goings on in mind you might see more chess match in boxing than you do currently.

Joshua however is terrible at it. He's never seen a bait he didn't bite on because he has no understanding of posture fighting. He keeps his back straight like a lifter when it is meant to be carrying power from foot to fist.

Bad posture leads him into bad position. Bad position leads him into an impure powerline. If you're generating considerable more energy than transfering you might have a stamina problem...well shoot bud, AJ has that too.

Wilder is off balance, but he's allowed to be. That's why I have a sig of Big George Foreman performing not all together unlike Wilder below. People look at George and exalt his resume but never go into his career and really watch him fight. I know they don't because without that sig relating George to Wilder caused nothing but arguments. Look at that sig and tell me Joshua or Fury have more incommon than George. Obviously not right? If you saw Fury fighting like Foreman in my sig you'd be thinking man Fury is ****ing up and he would be, Fury is not a puncher. Wilder is a puncher. He KO's his man like George looks to. If they're stumbling and bumbling around the ring and the fight ends in KO guess what happened? Yeah bud, you know it's true. The boxer got caught because they believed it was their skills that had the puncher stumblin not the puncher's guile.

What puncher does not have a whole slew of wins that can claim they were winning before they got KO'd? Probably because that is part of the style....probably.


Edit- Also, thanks, been a while since I had a respectable conversation about these three. I appreciates it.

[kafkod]

I'll explain posture fighting a bit then. Read it if you're interested but there's really no pressure; you done fine son.

Posture and position explain why punchers stumble around the ring. It's like stance except carries into movements....I'm sure you know what the word means.

Let me move away from the three for a bit so that there is no transitive to consider.

If you look at Marciano and his famous crouch it's all wrong. His posture is clearly not a standard boxer's posture. The stance alone is very different, but, it isn't as if the stance is the only time he crouches deep; he carries the crouch around the ring. Posture.

For Marciano the purpose could not be more clear. He's going to cover bigger distances than the standard posture can and he's going to hide some of the trajectory of his punches.

Marciano often used a technique called the phantom overhead. I'm sure you've at least seen a Marciano clipshow. From the perspective of the fans there is nothing phantom about Marciano ever. From the outside it looks like fantastic movers like Charles are just standing there waiting for Marciano to leap across the ring to smash him up. The reason Ezzard is stood there and appears to be waiting on Rock is because Rock was being deceptive.

Dip right, they can only see a bit of the punch form now. Wing heavy right hooks and let him react. If he's going to try to move and counter now you have him. Keep dipping right and winging right hooks to get the boxer into a rhythm. Now dip right and throw the overhead. The overhead is not an overhand, not a typo nor a misuse, I mean overhead. Kids call them looping sometimes but the actual name is overhead.

The overhead is the devastator, all those bad, off balance, and easily predicted hooks were just to position the boxer for receiving the overhead.

Ezzard's countering successfully all damn night long while Rocky stays one step behind, but, where Rock really put in his effort he was successful and got the punch he meant to get ending the fight on The Rockness Monster's terms. Ezzard has no reason to believe he's doing anything but winning the fight. Marciano has one job to do, sell the idea to Ezzard that Ezzard is winning and then take the rug out from under him.

So, to relate that to Fury...Jesus man, you know it'd take quite a post just to explain what Fury's mid-waist bow is about, but, if you watch boxing with that sort of goings on in mind you might see more chess match in boxing than you do currently.

Joshua however is terrible at it. He's never seen a bait he didn't bite on because he has no understanding of posture fighting. He keeps his back straight like a lifter when it is meant to be carrying power from foot to fist.

Bad posture leads him into bad position. Bad position leads him into an impure powerline. If you're generating considerable more energy than transfering you might have a stamina problem...well shoot bud, AJ has that too.

Wilder is off balance, but he's allowed to be. That's why I have a sig of Big George Foreman performing not all together unlike Wilder below. People look at George and exalt his resume but never go into his career and really watch him fight. I know they don't because without that sig relating George to Wilder caused nothing but arguments. Look at that sig and tell me Joshua or Fury have more incommon than George. Obviously not right? If you saw Fury fighting like Foreman in my sig you'd be thinking man Fury is ****ing up and he would be, Fury is not a puncher. Wilder is a puncher. He KO's his man like George looks to. If they're stumbling and bumbling around the ring and the fight ends in KO guess what happened? Yeah bud, you know it's true. The boxer got caught because they believed it was their skills that had the puncher stumblin not the puncher's guile.

What puncher does not have a whole slew of wins that can claim they were winning before they got KO'd? Probably because that is part of the style....probably.


Edit- Also, thanks, been a while since I had a respectable conversation about these three. I appreciates it.

You can't compare Wilder to Marciano for a number of reasons. Totally different body build is one. Another is their level of competition. What Marciano did worked against the best, most defensively adept HWs of his era. Wilder has avoided the best of his era, except an old and completely unproven Ortiz and Tyson Fury, who wasn't anywhere near his peak form when he was cherry picked by team Wilder.

Fury exposed what an inept and technically hopeless case Wilder truly is. He also exposed the myth of Wilder's supposed stamina.

I've looked at those gifs of Wilder and Foreman in your sig before today. Their form and punching techniques couldn't be more different.

Wilder wings his big punches out from high up and to the side, then down onto his opponents head. They have a downward trajectory, That's why a skillful guy with good reactions like Fury was able to roll and slip them harmlessly over and over, without any adjustment from Wilder. It's also why Wilder is so often accused of hitting on the back of the head, as in the first KD he scored against Fury.

Foreman's power punches have more of an upward trajectory, and he sweeps them in from the side, dipping his knees and torquing his waist to generate the power. You can't slip or roll punches that come at you like that, which is why Ali didn't even try and used a different defensive tactic than he'd ever employed before against Big George.

[Marchegiano]

You can't compare Wilder to Marciano for a number of reasons. Totally different body build is one. Another is their level of competition. What Marciano did worked against the best, most defensively adept HWs of his era. Wilder has avoided the best of his era, except an old and completely unproven Ortiz and Tyson Fury, who wasn't anywhere near his peak form when he was cherry picked by team Wilder.

Fury exposed what an inept and technically hopeless case Wilder truly is. He also exposed the myth of Wilder's supposed stamina.

I've looked at those gifs of Wilder and Foreman in your sig before today. Their form and punching techniques couldn't be more different.

Wilder wings his big punches out from high up and to the side, then down onto his opponents head. They have a downward trajectory, That's why a skillful guy with good reactions like Fury was able to roll and slip them harmlessly over and over, without any adjustment from Wilder. It's also why Wilder is so often accused of hitting on the back of the head, as in the first KD he scored against Fury.

Foreman's power punches have more of an upward trajectory, and he sweeps them in from the side, dipping his knees and torquing his waist to generate the power. You can't slip or roll punches that come at you like that, which is why Ali didn't even try and used a different defensive tactic than he'd ever employed before against Big George.

I'll just chalk this up to a failure to communicate

[REDEEMER]

I'll just chalk this up to a failure to communicate

I would say anyone that can communicate with the likes of you suffers from mental illness also. SMH

[REDEEMER]

You can't compare Wilder to Marciano for a number of reasons. Totally different body build is one. Another is their level of competition. What Marciano did worked against the best, most defensively adept HWs of his era. Wilder has avoided the best of his era, except an old and completely unproven Ortiz and Tyson Fury, who wasn't anywhere near his peak form when he was cherry picked by team Wilder.

Fury exposed what an inept and technically hopeless case Wilder truly is. He also exposed the myth of Wilder's supposed stamina.

I've looked at those gifs of Wilder and Foreman in your sig before today. Their form and punching techniques couldn't be more different.

Wilder wings his big punches out from high up and to the side, then down onto his opponents head. They have a downward trajectory, That's why a skillful guy with good reactions like Fury was able to roll and slip them harmlessly over and over, without any adjustment from Wilder. It's also why Wilder is so often accused of hitting on the back of the head, as in the first KD he scored against Fury.

Foreman's power punches have more of an upward trajectory, and he sweeps them in from the side, dipping his knees and torquing his waist to generate the power. You can't slip or roll punches that come at you like that, which is why Ali didn't even try and used a different defensive tactic than he'd ever employed before against Big George.

You are trying to reason with lunacy with Mr. M. Good observations except , AJ does his best work on the inside and is more prone to land his best punch the right uppercut.

[Ray*]

You can't compare Wilder to Marciano for a number of reasons. Totally different body build is one. Another is their level of competition. What Marciano did worked against the best, most defensively adept HWs of his era. Wilder has avoided the best of his era, except an old and completely unproven Ortiz and Tyson Fury, who wasn't anywhere near his peak form when he was cherry picked by team Wilder.

Fury exposed what an inept and technically hopeless case Wilder truly is. He also exposed the myth of Wilder's supposed stamina.

I've looked at those gifs of Wilder and Foreman in your sig before today. Their form and punching techniques couldn't be more different.

Wilder wings his big punches out from high up and to the side, then down onto his opponents head. They have a downward trajectory, That's why a skillful guy with good reactions like Fury was able to roll and slip them harmlessly over and over, without any adjustment from Wilder. It's also why Wilder is so often accused of hitting on the back of the head, as in the first KD he scored against Fury.

Foreman's power punches have more of an upward trajectory, and he sweeps them in from the side, dipping his knees and torquing his waist to generate the power. You can't slip or roll punches that come at you like that, which is why Ali didn't even try and used a different defensive tactic than he'd ever employed before against Big George.

You cannnot break it down more than that. The thing is some people only see what they want to see in their favourite fighters.

Big george/Marciano to Wilder! Well i dont even want to say no more because it would be "Hating" on Wilder.

[kafkod]

You are trying to reason with lunacy with Mr. M. Good observations except , AJ does his best work on the inside and is more prone to land his best punch the right uppercut.

Yes, AJ has a great right uppercut which he uses at close range. But he isn't somebody who can work from clinches, like, eg, Fury, Ward, and Dillian Whyte, sometimes.

AJ's reaction when opponents get close enough to hold and clinch is to wrestle them off, then step back and give himself punching room.

[kafkod]

I'll just chalk this up to a failure to communicate

Probably, because I'm still not sure what you mean by "posture"

But I've seen that Wilder's ability to keep his shape and form while throwing punches is very poor, especially in regard to foot positioning.

And I'm not the only one who has noticed that. I've heard many knowledgable boxing experts say the same thing.

Keeping his form while throwing hard punches was something Foreman was exceptionally good at, btw.

[kafkod]

I'll just chalk this up to a failure to communicate

You cannnot break it down more than that. The thing is some people only see what they want to see in their favourite fighters.

Big george/Marciano to Wilder! Well i dont even want to say no more because it would be "Hating" on Wilder.

I'm thinking that maybe Marchegiano hasn't noticed the improvements AJ has made in most aspects of his game since he won his first world title.

He has had only 22 pro fights, after a short amateur career, and is literally getting better with every fight.

Another thing I wanted to mention .... AJ is much more like Foreman than Wilder is, in the way he shapes and generates power in his punches.

I could easily find film of AJ letting big shots go which would look similar to that gif of Foreman.