Lil g is the biggest coward known to mankind. let's hope Canelo,Jacobs ignore him

[Snowballer]

I was a Golovkin fan too, but his unwillingness to take on challenges turned me off.

Ducking Derevyanchenko and letting the IBF strip the only belt he had won off a sitting titlist confirmed what I thought of him.

[Citizen Koba]

He could've faced both Cotto and Canelo around 2015 by simply dropping to 155. you know... a sacrifice to make a big fight happen. something he has never done and still refuses to. both Cotto and Canelo were A side. when Floyd wanted ODLH he obeyed every request as the B side. Golovkin never budged from 160 therefore he had to wait. Cotto was MW champ but not a true MW. same way Pacquiao was JMW champ but him facing Sergio Martinez was a pipe dream. Hopkins dropped to 156 to make the Oscar fight happen, it was still a MW title fight.

No way would GGG have fought Canelo or Cotto before 2016, man - the WBC had been lining up the Cotto / Canelo /Martinez thing since 2013... It's my belief that they mandated GGG in order to ensure that Cotto fought Canelo sooner rather than later (much as they used Charlo to try to 'encourage' GGG into the Canelo rematch). Essentially given the relative ages of the fighters involved (GGG / Martinez / Cotto / Canelo) and Canelo's obvious talent it was only a matter of time before he stepped into the MW top slot that he had been groomed for. Now - would Canelo have fought Golovkin in 2016 had GGG agreed to drop weight... well we'll never know, will we? The weight was never the reason Oscar or Canelo gave for the fight not happening in Sept '16. You could say that was smoke, or I could say that Golovkin probably would have gone down a few Lbs had push come to shove - not to 155 I think, but maybe 157 / 8 - either way it's just speculation, but you can't claim with any authority that the fight would definitely have happened had Golovkin offered to drop to 155 (which would have been damn ****** of him in any case, and isn't something which we should expect of a fighter - 2 or 3 Lbs, maybe, but 5?).

In any case, what we can say is that fights happen when the 'A' side is ready (which is an advantage in itself), and in my opinion at least, we shouldn't, as fans, expect a B side to compromise their fighting ability in order to make a fight happen. The realities of the sport sometimes demand it, but is it a good thing? Not in my opinion, it ain't.

[Snowballer]

No way would GGG have fought Canelo or Cotto before 2016, man - the WBC had been lining up the Cotto / Canelo /Martinez thing since 2013... It's my belief that they mandated GGG in order to ensure that Cotto fought Canelo sooner rather than later (much as they used Charlo to try to 'encourage' GGG into the Canelo rematch). Essentially given the relative ages of the fighters involved (GGG / Martinez / Cotto / Canelo) and Canelo's obvious talent it was only a matter of time before he stepped into the MW top slot that he had been groomed for. Now - would Canelo have fought Golovkin in 2016 had GGG agreed to drop weight... well we'll never know, will we? The weight was never the reason Oscar or Canelo gave for the fight not happening in Sept '16. You could say that was smoke, or I could say that Golovkin probably would have gone down a few Lbs had push come to shove - not to 155 I think, but maybe 157 / 8 - either way it's just speculation, but you can't claim with any authority that the fight would definitely have happened had Golovkin offered to drop to 155 (which would have been damn ****** of him in any case, and isn't something which we should expect of a fighter - 2 or 3 Lbs, maybe, but 5?).

In any case, what we can say is that fights happen when the 'A' side is ready, and in my opinion at least, we shouldn't, as fans, expect a B side to compromise their fighting ability in order to make a fight happen. The realities of the sport sometimes demand it, but is it a good thing? No in my opinion.

Some fighters do whatever it takes to make the fights the fans want happen.

Some fighters have big demands and will only take a challenge if the price is right.

[Citizen Koba]

Some fighters do whatever it takes to make the fights the fans want happen.

Some fighters have big demands and will only take a challenge if the price is right.

Yes they do - it's inevitable, in fact I would say the price has to be right for any fighter, it's just the risk / reward calculations are different if every case. If you think Golovkin (or any other fighter) is a 'coward' or somesuch nonsense for not offering to drop 5Lbs or whatever then that is your perogative, of course. What I'm saying is that I don't think that it's a good thing, even if I acknowledge it as a reality of the sport.

It's probably not unprecedented, but I'd say such an offer (155Lbs) would have been very unusual - 157 would probably have been more normal and I expect that whatever posturing was made beforehand that weight would likely have been accepted... however the fact remains that after discussions for a Sept '16 fight the weight was never mentioned by either side as a reason the fight didn't happen, yet I've seen strident declarations that both the Cotto and Canelo fights would have hapened before 2017 had Golovkin not been so stubborn on the weight issue, when in fact such claims remain pure speculation.

Simple fact is we don't know what compromises Golovkin may or may not have made, because the fight didn't happen til 2017 for given reasons that had nothing to do with the weight (or the split for that matter). In the end It happened when Canelo and Oscar chose for it to happen (which is of course, the A side pergoative) and at the weight both sides agreed. Had Canelo not wanted the fight at 160 or in 2017 then it would not have happened at that weight or time.

[Snowballer]

Yes they do - it's inevitable, in fact I would say the price has to be right for any fighter, it's just the risk / reward calculations are different if every case. If you think Golovkin (or any other fighter) is a 'coward' or somesuch nonsense for not offering to drop 5Lbs or whatever then that is your perogative, of course. What I'm saying is that I don't think that it's a good thing, even if I acknowledge it as a reality of the sport.

It's probably not unprecedented, but I'd say such an offer (155Lbs) would have been very unusual - 157 would probably have been more normal and I expect that whatever posturing was made beforehand that weight would likely have been accepted... however the fact remains that after discussions for a Sept '16 fight the weight was never mentioned by either side as a reason the fight didn't happen, yet I've seen strident declarations that both the Cotto and Canelo fights would have hapened before 2017 had Golovkin not been so stubborn on the weight issue, when in fact such claims remain pure speculation.

This is what we know:

-Golovkin and his team have been saying since 2012-2017 that they would fight between 154-168.

-Ward offered a fight at 168, GGG demanded a CW of 164.

-Canelo challeneged GGG to a non-title fight at a CW of 155, GGG demanded 160.

-Erislandy Lara was very vocal about fighting Golovkin, to which Golovkin never acknowldged.

-Austin Trout is also on record challenging GGG, but he got the same treatment Lara did.

My guess is that GGG is not the type of fighter who makes his own decisions as far as who he fights and both Sanchez and Loeffler have taken GGG through what they thought was the easiest road with Canelo being the exception because of the payday behind that fight.

[Citizen Koba]

This is what we know:

-Golovkin and his team have been saying since 2012-2017 that they would fight between 154-168.

-Ward offered a fight at 168, GGG demanded a CW of 164.

-Canelo challeneged GGG to a non-title fight at a CW of 155, GGG demanded 160.

-Erislandy Lara was very vocal about fighting Golovkin, to which Golovkin never acknowldged.

-Austin Trout is also on record challenging GGG, but he got the same treatment Lara did.

My guess is that GGG is not the type of fighter who makes his own decisions as far as who he fights and both Sanchez and Loeffler have taken GGG through what they thought was the easiest road with Canelo being the exception because of the payday behind that fight.

Ach.. all this has been through so many times I don't really want to rehash it, if you've been around the forums a while you pretty much know the answers I'll give and will already have made up your mind on them.

Suffice to say Golovkin was hobbled with a late start to his US career (after being ****ed over by Universum) and a promoter that had no real pull in the states, no stable to make filler fights or reciprocative deals. Furthermore he signed and was built up by a network with dimishing budgets who were involved in a losing war with rival networks, in a division with almost no names familiar to the audience of the country he was fighting in - yet the only reason for anyone to fight him was the semi-legitimate title he held in that division.

We've seen how difficult it is for fights to get made in the best of circumstances, with fighters under the same network and promoter sometimes taking years to get it together, so... anyway - you can work out what I'm saying.

Could Golovkin have made more compromises? Well maybe for Lara - but we don't know what the HBO execs had to say or what the budget was. For Ward? Just after he'd been mandated to fight the Cotto - Canelo winner? No fighter or promoter would turn their back on the potential MW payday to fight Ward in that circumstances. The mention of 164 for Ward was ****** and I'm not surprised it got people riled but it wasn't an 'offer' it Sanchez musing over what it might take for such a fight to happen... in fact it was made clear around the time that by then they had no interest in a Ward fight at any weight because it looked like the opportunities at 160 were coming together. It's a truism that guys only ever move up for better money or because they can't make weight (though Canelo has bucked the trend here with the Fielding fight). No-one moves up for a tougher fight for less money.

Anyway. Like I say. I'm not in the business of running other fighters down for their decisions on opponent selection (unless we're talking about Rod Salka type ish), and I ain't gonna change that policy for one of my favourite fighters in GGG. Any fighter can be subjected to that kind of criticism if you choose, any decision can be second guessed, and any resume shredded, and if you choose to believe that GGG is some kind of exception in the way he makes fights I'm not gonna waste more of my time trying to dissuade you.

[DreamFighter]

writng off lil G a bit early, hes only 36. You guys forget that he won his title fair n square in the ring vs lemmy, even if the others were "awarded" to him for nothing.

But he was a bona fide titlist for nearly 4 years with 2 good wins under his belt (lemieux and Jacobs), thats something.

[champion4ever]

Canelo owes GGG a rematch because it was a voluntary defense. In addition, the WBC and especially Mauricio Sulaiman was wrong for making GGG to go through all this red tape just to get an immediate rematch for his titles in an elimination bout with mandatory challenger Jermall Charlo when Gennady is no longer the WBC champion.

Since there was no rematch clause, then it should have been Canelo's mandatory obligation to challenge Jermall Charlo for the WBC middleweight title belt after his voluntary contest at 168; Not Golovkin because Saul Canelo Alvarez is now currently the WBC's 160 lbs champion. This decision alone is wrong and smacks of corruption. Why does Gennady Golovkin has to contend for a title, that he voluntary defended?

[Citizen Koba]

Canelo owes GGG a rematch because it was a voluntary defense. In addition, the WBC and especially Mauricio Sulaiman was wrong for making GGG to go through all this red tape just to get an immediate rematch for his titles in an elimination bout with mandatory challenger Jermall Charlo when Gennady is no longer the WBC champion.

Since there was no rematch clause, then it should have been Canelo's mandatory obligation to challenge Jermall Charlo for the WBC middleweight title belt after his voluntary contest at 168; Not Golovkin because Saul Canelo Alvarez is now currently the WBC's 160 lbs champion. This decision alone is wrong and smacks of corruption. Why does Gennady Golovkin has to contend for a title, that he voluntary defended?

Second fight was mandatory, man. First fight was voluntary.

[champion4ever]

Second fight was mandatory, man. First fight was voluntary.

How was the second fight mandatory? When the first fight wasn't mandatory. Both fights were voluntary defenses. Canelo was never a mandatory challenger to Gennady Golovkin. They fought a second time because Mauricio fat ass Sulaiman put pressure on GGG by stating: "If he didn't fight Canelo again, then he would have to fight his mandatory challenger Jermall Charlo".