Arum: Showtime will leave boxing within the next year

[yammy25]

It comes from those who bothered to do the survey. If you voluntarily do a survey your responses are taken serious because you went out of the way to make your voice heard when it's easier to ignore the survey

so those who bothered to do the survey.. that could be 10% of new subs... that doesnt mean half of all new subs think boxings important, or that 30% of all new subs did it specifically for the sport.

Bothering to make your voice heard also doesnt change numerical fact. You cannot apply a percentage of a percentage, attribute that to the gross and call it a fact.

Thats called fudging the numbers lol.

what if the remaining 90% of the subs didnt do or think at all what espinoza said.. that means its ..drum roll......

absolute rubbish.

That sort of arithmetic and number padding is straight out of Eddie Hearns playbook, but because its showtime and espinoza its acceptable. Jesus christ....

[KTFOKING]

what empirical data is there to show this? showtime didnt send surveys out at the time of or after subscription, and if they did.. no company in the world gets more than a 15/20% answer submission rate.

Theres simply no way to back up those figures when used in that sentence. How can you tell that half of your new subs like boxing if you didnt get a 100% answer rate to the very question you never asked? with 50 % of that 100% saying having to say yes.

What method and what data is there , used by showtime to show that 30% signed up specifically for boxing?

absolute rubbish

That's not how sampling works. Of course they didn't ask every new subscriber or every subscriber if they like boxing or not. They could have surveyed "x" amount of subscribers and used the results of that survey to extrapolate their data.

It is the same with TV ratings. They don't get the exact number, but they get their data off those with Nielsen boxes and use that to come up with their reported number.

[IMDAZED]

what empirical data is there to show this? showtime didnt send surveys out at the time of or after subscription, and if they did.. no company in the world gets more than a 15/20% answer submission rate.

Theres simply no way to back up those figures when used in that sentence. How can you tell that half of your new subs like boxing if you didnt get a 100% answer rate to the very question you never asked? with 50 % of that 100% saying having to say yes.

What method and what data is there , used by showtime to show that 30% signed up specifically for boxing?

absolute rubbish

What makes you think Showtime doesn’t ask new subscribers what they are interested in or their opinions on their current programming. I know for a fact that they do.

[champion4ever]

Showtime in affiliation with Al Haymon and Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Is what put HBO out of business. They simply couldn't compete with them.

That's why we saw the influx of Eastern European fighters fighting on HBO because they were a lot cheaper to produce. They all were just in search of some U.S. television exposure that's all.

When Haymon moved his entire roster over to showtime HBO cut its budget. It was the first signal that their boxing programming was on life support.

Today on Premium cable, Showtime is the only game left in town to play. Watch how Showtime's subscription rate increases as a result of HBO's fall.

[yammy25]

That's not how sampling works. Of course they didn't ask every new subscriber or every subscriber if they like boxing or not. They could have surveyed "x" amount of subscribers and used the results of that survey to extrapolate their data.

It is the same with TV ratings. They don't get the exact number, but they get their data off those with Nielsen boxes and use that to come up with their reported number.

Im aware of how sampling works, what im stating is that taking a sample percentage and attributing it to gross in the way espinoza has done is not conclusive to fact.

he has just stated " this percentage of new subs think this"
"this percentage did it for this" and that isnt correct.

you cant state a percentage of a sample size as attributed to a whole demographic. thats not how sampling works AT ALL

[yammy25]

What makes you think Showtime doesn’t ask new subscribers what they are interested in or their opinions on their current programming. I know for a fact that they do.

what makes you think that they receive a 100% feedback rate on those questionnaires.

What makes you think that taking a percentage from a sample percentage and attributing that to a gross number such as "all new subs" then makes something fact?

What was the sample size? where were they located?

FACTS, because currently they cannot be disproved

There is no way of knowing that more than 50% of showtime subs DO NOT think boxing is important.
There is no way of knowing that more than 70% of showtime subs DID NOT sign up specifically for boxing.

Espinoza never cited samples in the statements highlighted in this thread, he stated numbers as percentages attributed to ALL new subs. That isnt correct, and is not sampling.

[KTFOKING]

Im aware of how sampling works, what im stating is that taking a sample percentage and attributing it to gross in the way espinoza has done is not conclusive to fact.

he has just stated " this percentage of new subs think this"
"this percentage did it for this" and that isnt correct.

you cant state a percentage of a sample size as attributed to a whole demographic. thats not how sampling works AT ALL

Again, if you are talking about in whole, then sure. However, the key is take have a large enough sample to confident in your results. So I need to hear his exact quote. But if he said we have found out 30% of our subscribers are purely through boxing and another 50% like it, the statement is fine. Could it be a bit more accurate if he said of our surveys that we have sent out from "x" amount of subscribers, this is what we found? Yes, but that simply doesn't happen for the most part.

So if anyone has the quote or video, I'd love to take a look at it.

[Motofan]

Man if he's right I'm gonna be about done with the sport outside of big fights. Free tv has **** announcing, horrible production value, and commercials in between rounds? Just not the same. Not even close.

[KTFOKING]

A 2018 tracking study it commissioned showed that 29 percent of respondents said boxing was “very important” to continue subscribing to premium cable and 54 percent considered it “important” to “very important.” In addition, 90 percent perceived Showtime boxing favorably.

https://sports.yahoo.com/facing-fierce-competition-even-hbos-boxing-exit-showtime-remains-committed-fight-game-001207784.html

So yeah, that statement is just fine. Not an exact statement of "30% of our new subscribers are because of boxing."

[N/A]

It's hard to believe CBS is gonna continue pouring money into boxing if they're only averaging 600K viewers a fight featuring America's best fighters. There's only so many Floyd Mayweather PPVs out there that can disguise how poorly the rest of boxing draws for SHO.

I will explain this to you again for the hundredth time.

HBO was artificially propping up their Nielsen numbers for boxing while Showtime has done the exact opposite.

Just because you don't have access to the true numbers doesn't mean it isn't very obvious that Showtime is thrilled with the true numbers.

Even though I've explained this a hundred times, I'll explain it again.


HBO refused to show their fights live on HBO GO and HBO NOW. That's because they only wanted you watching the fights in ways that would be counted by the Nielsen number. Showtime couldn't care less about the public number Pigeons sees and only cares about the real number. That's why Showtime allows their fights to be watched live on Showtime Anytime and on the Showtime app.


HBO refused to show their fights on HBO GO and HBO NOW for an additional 72 hours before finally uploading them on Tuesdays. That's because they only wanted you watching the fights in ways that would be counted by the Nielsen number. Showtime couldn't care less about the public number Pigeons sees and only cares about the real number. That's why Showtime allows their fights to be watched on demand almost instantly on Showtime Anytime and on the Showtime app.


HBO refused to show their broadcasts in their entirety on HBO GO and HBO NOW. That's because they only wanted you watching the fights in ways that would be counted by the Nielsen number. Showtime couldn't care less about the public number Pigeons sees and only cares about the real number. That's why Showtime allows their entire broadcasts on Showtime Anytime and on the Showtime app.


HBO refused to show replays the night of the fight. That's because they only wanted you watching the fights in ways that would be counted by the Nielsen number. Showtime couldn't care less about the public number Pigeons sees and only cares about the real number. That's why Showtime has multiple airings on fight night, even if doing so discourages people from watching the airing counted by Nielsen.