Comments Thread For: Anthony Joshua-Alexander Povetkin: Afterthoughts

[Laligalaliga]

[IMG]https://media.*****.com/media/YTXGNnbSxDmjnspx8G/*****.gif[/IMG]

Careful, he might get what he wants.

Then its good night for Ortiz.

[Jkp]

Two judges had Joshua 4-2 up and one had him 5-1 up after 6.

Once again the boxing judging system on show as the train wreck that it is.

Or maybe once again, the judges are so superior in their knowledge of boxing that the rest of us maggots have no idea what we are seeing.

Yep disgusting fixing from Eddie hearn. Aj was going backwards whole fight too

[Sid-Knee]

Again, I disagree. Ortiz is STILL a force to be reckoned with and nobody wants to challenge him. Avoided like a bad habit!

The only thing Joshua has proven is that he is better than Martin, a faded Klitschko, Parker and a faded Povetkin. He is not the lineal champion and has never proven himself to be number 1 in the division. He has Fury's belts, but hasn't fought Fury and he has gone out of his way to sidestep Wilder, the only champion that existed before he came on the scene. The number 1 was Fury, then Wilder, and after December 1st, we'll know who's the better of the two. Joshua never challenged for the number 1 spot IN THE RING and is now on the outside looking in. If he really wants it, he can fight the winner but something tells me Matchroom believes there's really no rush...

So avoided means he's in his prime? Nice logic there. Ortiz is well past his best.

Joshua hasn't avoided Ortiz. If he has, point out when?

When Fury beat Wlad he went to the number 1 spot, Wlad went into the number 2 slot. But when Fury left, Wlad moved up one spot back to the top. Thinking it was Wilder due to his win over that bum Stiverne who had done nothing in his career other than beat another bum in Areola who was never a top 10 fighter is pure crazy. If you think he was, who did Areola beat to be there?

Fury has been away for 3 years so he most certainly doesn't retake the number 1 spot, it doesn't work like that.

And trying to bash the vastly superior resume of Joshua in defence of that grotesque resume Wilder has shows me how deranged you really are. It's desperate. So hate all you want, Joshua is the clear number 1 in the division. Everyone who isn't hateful and deluded agrees. So save it.

[billeau2]

Oh please, Ortiz is a lot bigger, stronger, and skilled than Povetkin, plus he's a southpaw.

There's a reason that everybody fights Povetkin and yet only Wilder was willing to get in with Ortiz, in spite of the fact that King Kong calls everybody out.

It is silly to try to compare povatkin and Ortiz, different type of fighter all together. But I find that the Cuban heavyweights are often underestimated on these boards.

[davefromvancouv]

So avoided means he's in his prime? Nice logic there. Ortiz is well past his best.

Joshua hasn't avoided Ortiz. If he has, point out when?.

Yes, it happens often: dangerous fighters are avoided by up-and-coming fighters until they feel confident they can beat them. This has been the case with Ortiz since he first came on the scene and continues to this day. He hasn't slipped yet, same flaws, same power, so he's still in his prime. Whyte was ordered to fight Ortiz for the next WBC mandatory but chose Parker instead. Maybe Joshua feels ready for the challenge in April? Definitely a better fight than an old, rehashed Whyte rematch. I'd favor Ortiz over Joshua, Povetkin, Whye and Parker at this point. I'd imagine you'd think otherwise. Would be nice to settle this debate the old fashioned way: in the ring!

When Fury beat Wlad he went to the number 1 spot, Wlad went into the number 2 slot. But when Fury left, Wlad moved up one spot back to the top. Thinking it was Wilder due to his win over that bum Stiverne who had done nothing in his career other than beat another bum in Areola who was never a top 10 fighter is pure crazy. If you think he was, who did Areola beat to be there?.

Uh no, remember that Wilder was the only champion at the time so he was the de-facto number 1, but (I agree) not yet proven. After Ortiz, he was ready to take on all comers. Joshua actually left the WBC ratings to pick up Fury's belts (he would have had to fight Povetkin in 2016 to become the mandatory). As Joshua himself said the post fight interview last weekend, he may not have beaten Povetkin at that time. Since he was still green and had a huge UK following, the other belt holders fought him instead of the more dangerous reigning WBC champion.

The only reason Klitschko was picked by Joshua is because it was felt he was faded at the time and could no longer pull the trigger. A different version of Klitschko showed up that night that nearly derailed the Joshua train, but helped to take Joshua to another level. But, regardless, he'll still be kept from Wilder for as long as possible until Wilder slips or until Joshua feels he can beat him. Not a sign of a number 1 fighter, is it?

Fury has been away for 3 years so he most certainly doesn't retake the number 1 spot, it doesn't work like that..

I agree that Fury is not number 1 (Wilder is), but Fury is still the man that beat the man. You can only lose the lineal status in the ring. Even if Joshua and Wilder had fought, and Fury came back, Fury would still be the lineal champion but his status would hold a lot less weight. As it stands, Fury is back and feels confident enough to fight Wilder in his own backyard. Too bad Joshua doesn't share that same level of confidence. Not even $50+ million and a $30+ million rematch could entice him. So, yeah, he's not ready and is not yet confident enough to believe he can beat Wilder.

And trying to bash the vastly superior resume of Joshua in defence of that grotesque resume Wilder has shows me how deranged you really are. It's desperate. So hate all you want, Joshua is the clear number 1 in the division. Everyone who isn't hateful and deluded agrees. So save it.

Who's bashing Joshua's accomplishments? I'm just saying he has never been number 1 because he's never fought Wilder or Fury. Still impressive though. But if Wilder wins, Wilder is in the history books along with John L Sullivan, Jack Jackson, Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis. If not, Fury proves that he's the best and reaffirms his lineal status. All of a sudden, the same belts that were stripped from Fury, the very same belts Joshua now holds, won't mean much. Fury will have proven himself...

[Sid-Knee]

Yes, it happens often: dangerous fighters are avoided by up-and-coming fighters until they feel confident they can beat them. This has been the case with Ortiz since he first came on the scene and continues to this day. He hasn't slipped yet, same flaws, same power, so he's still in his prime. Whyte was ordered to fight Ortiz for the next WBC mandatory but chose Parker instead. Maybe Joshua feels ready for the challenge in April? Definitely a better fight than an old, rehashed Whyte rematch. I'd favor Ortiz over Joshua, Povetkin, Whye and Parker at this point. I'd imagine you'd think otherwise. Would be nice to settle this debate the old fashioned way: in the ring!



Uh no, remember that Wilder was the only champion at the time so he was the de-facto number 1, but (I agree) not yet proven. After Ortiz, he was ready to take on all comers. Joshua actually left the WBC ratings to pick up Fury's belts (he would have had to fight Povetkin in 2016 to become the mandatory). As Joshua himself said the post fight interview last weekend, he may not have beaten Povetkin at that time. Since he was still green and had a huge UK following, the other belt holders fought him instead of the more dangerous reigning WBC champion.

The only reason Klitschko was picked by Joshua is because it was felt he was faded at the time and could no longer pull the trigger. A different version of Klitschko showed up that night that nearly derailed the Joshua train, but helped to take Joshua to another level. But, regardless, he'll still be kept from Wilder for as long as possible until Wilder slips or until Joshua feels he can beat him. Not a sign of a number 1 fighter, is it?



I agree that Fury is not number 1 (Wilder is), but Fury is still the man that beat the man. You can only lose the lineal status in the ring. Even if Joshua and Wilder had fought, and Fury came back, Fury would still be the lineal champion but his status would hold a lot less weight. As it stands, Fury is back and feels confident enough to fight Wilder in his own backyard. Too bad Joshua doesn't share that same level of confidence. Not even $50+ million and a $30+ million rematch could entice him. So, yeah, he's not ready and is not yet confident enough to believe he can beat Wilder.



Who's bashing Joshua's accomplishments? I'm just saying he has never been number 1 because he's never fought Wilder or Fury. Still impressive though. But if Wilder wins, Wilder is in the history books along with John L Sullivan, Jack Jackson, Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis. If not, Fury proves that he's the best and reaffirms his lineal status. All of a sudden, the same belts that were stripped from Fury, the very same belts Joshua now holds, won't mean much. Fury will have proven himself...

Ortiz is 39, there is no way he's in his prime. And as I've said before, prime fighters don't nearly fail the medical, have high blood pressure, or gas out after 1 round of activity.

Wilder never went to the number 1 regardless of having a title. That's not how it works. Titles don't decide your position. When Wlad lost, he never went all the way down the rankings. He went to number 2. A dominate fighter doesn't all of a sudden have less worth than fighters who haven't even had a single good win on their record yet. And when Fury left, all fighters moved up 1 spot, so Wlad returned to the number 1 slot. Most rational people view it that way as well. Wilder has never been the legit number 1. How could you with such a pathetic resume? He only beat that bum Stiverne. No right thinking person would have him in that position. So that is why everyone views Joshua as the definite number 1. You're the one who is in the minority here. As you are with the view to Ortiz being prime.

Make a thread with a poll with the question asking if Ortiz is in his prime. I guarantee nearly everyone will laugh and vote a clear no. Don't believe me? Try it.

[davefromvancouv]

Ortiz is 39, there is no way he's in his prime. And as I've said before, prime fighters don't nearly fail the medical, have high blood pressure, or gas out after 1 round of activity.

Wilder never went to the number 1 regardless of having a title. That's not how it works. Titles don't decide your position. When Wlad lost, he never went all the way down the rankings. He went to number 2. A dominate fighter doesn't all of a sudden have less worth than fighters who haven't even had a single good win on their record yet. And when Fury left, all fighters moved up 1 spot, so Wlad returned to the number 1 slot. Most rational people view it that way as well. Wilder has never been the legit number 1. How could you with such a pathetic resume? He only beat that bum Stiverne. No right thinking person would have him in that position. So that is why everyone views Joshua as the definite number 1. You're the one who is in the minority here. As you are with the view to Ortiz being prime.

Make a thread with a poll with the question asking if Ortiz is in his prime. I guarantee nearly everyone will laugh and vote a clear no. Don't believe me? Try it.

Especially in the heavyweight division, fighters reach their prime later than their "physical" prime. And you gauge a fighter's prime by their performance in the ring, not their age. Wilder just entered his after his performance with Ortiz. He'll get better from here on out for a good 3-5 years. Ortiz hasn't slipped yet and is good for another year or two. But yes, he's at the tail end of his best years.

Povetkin, on the other hand, has clearly slipped. As has Klitschko, so their performances against Joshua were valiant, but not at their best.

In no way, shape or form was Klitschko number 1 when Fury left. Wilder had already been slated to fight Fury after the Szpilka fight. They were the two top heavyweights at the time and Klitschko was considered damaged goods. After Fury, Wilder obviously took the top spot.