Who is Fury Lineal For?

[Scipio2009]

We keep hearing that he is lineal champion (the tall black guy on BT let me down, as he is normally unbiased and knowledgeable), but how is that? For the last 3 decades, the lineal championship has been intertwined with The Ring magazine. Wladimir's lineal title was The Ring belt, which Fury won, ye according to The Ring, Fury is now ranked 10th and the lineal title is vacant.

Boxrec, the world's largest boxing database, also has the lineal title vacant. Anthony Joshua tops the rankings in the division for both organisations. The other body that modern boxing fans like to bring up, TBRB, also has their champion as vacant, with AJ ranked as the top guy. With the governing body belts mainly in the hands of AJ, and a single belt in the hand of Wilder, what title is Fury holding?

The final argument presented is that Fury has never lost, thus did not lose this so called "lineal" title, but, according to Fury himself, he retired. When one retires, all titles are automatically relinquished, including the faceless/beltless/organisation-less lineal title haha.

So, beyond simply saying the word, how is Fury, a man currently fighting the bottom of the scrapes of the barrel, a lineal champion?

I mean, logically, Marciano should still be lineal heavyweight champion if Fury can be.

There was a post here maybe a week ago that did a great job explaining the lineal heavyweight championship, but the lineal champion flows from the last fighter to stake the claim as undisputed heavyweight champion.

The last lineal champion, as far as I see it, was Lennox Lewis (he retired, leaving the title vacant, but Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko were able to get all of the titles, so instead of facing off against each other, 'Klitschko brothers' became the lineal champion).

Tyson Fury's claim to the lineal championship comes from 'Klitschko brothers' being lineal champion becoming to Wladimir Klitschko becoming lineal champion when Vitali retired, and Fury beating Wladimir Klitschko.

In logical reality, no different than with Muhammad Ali, Wilder is the WBC champion, Fury is the uncrowned WBA/IBF/WBO champion, and the winner of Wilder-Fury would have a claim to the WBC/WBA/IBF/WBO/IBO heavyweight titles as disputed champion for the first time since Lennox Lewis (fighting Anthony Joshua will make an undisputed heavyweight champion, from wence you can continue the title lineage after Lewis).

[SinderellaMan]

The rules of the Ring state 2 years of no defenses, failed drug test, or retirement give up champion status.
Technically, Fury lost the lineal title for refusing the drug test.
But, he beat the man & nobody beat him, so he can make that claim. Frazier fought Ali to leave no doubt who the champion was.
BUT, let’s be real, Fury pissed hot for the Wlad fight.

[Larry the boss]

The rules of the Ring state 2 years of no defenses, failed drug test, or retirement give up champion status.
Technically, Fury lost the lineal title for refusing the drug test.
But, he beat the man & nobody beat him, so he can make that claim. Frazier fought Ali to leave no doubt who the champion was.
BUT, let’s be real, Fury pissed hot for the Wlad fight.

Ring title does not =lineal title

[Real King Kong]

Not that lineage even matters in this day and age, but fury was the lineal champ for beating kitschko who was indisputably "the man" in the division. But I feel like being out of the ring for almost 3 years and failing drug tests, he kinda relinquished his right to call himself the real hw champ. The winner of this fight has to face aj to cement it imo.

[Larry the boss]

guy made a stupid thread, got proven wrong and ran

[HOUDINI563]

Lineal title a the biggest deal. It links the past champions with the present in a logical manner.

Unfortunately the decades of multiple champions in each division has diluted down not only talent but the ability for even very knowledgeable fans to determine a lineal champion.

From what I have read Fury never officially retired. Thus we are faced with the age old question....what do you do with a champion who stops defending his title? This was always a big question mark for those against the idea of the lineal title. Historically the thought was no matter the circumstance the champion remains the champion. So is Fury still the champion after several years of not stepping in the ring?

[LoadedWraps]

guy made a stupid thread, got proven wrong and ran

soul survivor bodied by larryx

[N/A]

For the last 3 decades, the lineal championship has been intertwined with The Ring magazine. Wladimir's lineal title was The Ring belt, which Fury won, ye according to The Ring, Fury is now ranked 10th and the lineal title is vacant.

The Ring title and the lineal title are two completely different things. Ring Magazine is owned by HBO's lead promoter and makes the rules up as they go along. Ring strips fighters that don't fight Ring's mandatories. Ring vacancies can be filled by fights between #2 and #5.

The lineal title doesn't have mandatories. A lineal vacancy can only be filled by a fight between #1 and #2. The rules of the Ring title are fundamentally opposed to the rules of the lineal title.

Ring itself still refers to Tyson Fury as the lineal champion, proving Ring isn't even claiming that the Ring & lineal titles are the same.

https://www.******.com/540520-deonta...eres-no-doubt/

Wilder is inching closer to another super fight: a bout with lineal champion Tyson Fury

[soul_survivor]

Tarver was Ring champ-NEVER LINEAL
Hopkins when he beat Tarver was ring champ-NOT LINEAL

Lineage is not attached to an organization

You fail to understand my point. I probably used too many big words in my original post.

The fact is very simple, lineal championship is decided by multiple factors, often (not always), it has been intertwined with The Ring, especially at heavyweight. As the championships have become more and more vague, and numbers have increased (gone up in simple english)the lineal title has had various affiliations, it's been in the hands of the guy with unified belts, or its been based on journalistic consensus and nowadays we have boxrec and TBRB.

At no point has the lineal title simply been a fact where some guy can point and say, "oh yeah that guy is lineal because...I want him to be."

That is the case with Fury, he holds none of the heavyweight titles, he is not rated as champion by boxrec or TBRB and honest sports journalists would not rate him as lineal either.

ON TOP OF ALL THAT he was retired, which means all his titles become vacant, even the so called lineal title. The double whammy comes with the fact that he was also banned from the sport on a doping offence, which can also lead to losing titles...oh triple whammy, he did not defend for 2 years.

So can you now explain what your basis for calling him lineal is?

[soul_survivor]

soul survivor bodied by larryx

Not really, it was 1am and I went to bed. Also, no one has refuted any of the points I made.