The Heavyweight Division Hierarchy Got Clearer Yesterday...

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  • Madison Boxing
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    #21
    Originally posted by koolkc107
    Who?

    Who are the "much better fighters" they beat?

    Whyte struggled and went 12 with a guy Ortiz sparked out.

    Chisora's best win in his last 10 fights (which includes a clear loss to Pulev and a controversial one to Whyte) was last nite vs Takam who is himself a fringe contender at best.

    Ortiz has a better resume than both combined.


    And his loss to Wilder trumps any win the others have.
    who exactly is on that resume..... no bull**** just give me some names.

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    • 4truth
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      #22
      Chisora is years passed being even a fringe contender. He, Parker and Whyte are all pretty much at the same level now. They can be fun to watch and can put on a good show but let’s non confuse that with being top level fighters. Parker is the most skilled of an unskilled bunch but he I just isn’t fit enough to get the job done.

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      • koolkc107
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        #23
        Originally posted by The Madison
        who exactly is on that resume..... no bull**** just give me some names.
        Dude, why do you expect me to respond to anything you ask without apologizing for your past disrespect?

        You can find the names yourself. They are there and they aint British commonwealth champions either...

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        • Madison Boxing
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          #24
          Originally posted by koolkc107
          Dude, why do you expect me to respond to anything you ask without apologizing for your past disrespect?

          You can find the names yourself. They are there and they aint British commonwealth champions either...
          okay so you know full well his resume is ****e, good.

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          • koolkc107
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            #25
            Originally posted by The Madison
            okay so you know full well his resume is ****e, good.
            No, I know it is better as I said.

            I just don't care to prove or disprove anything to folks like yourself who aren't really boxing aficionados anyway.

            You like a few fighters and as soon as they lose, you will go silent or even disappear for a while.

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            • Kezzer
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              #26
              Rather than claim all sorts of silly kudos I think what this really proved as there was more depth to heavyweights than people originally thought. Ortiz and wilder need to get amongst it rather than fight bums.

              If anything I would say the heavyweight scene is a lot less clear!

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              • koolkc107
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                #27
                Originally posted by Kezzer
                Rather than claim all sorts of silly kudos I think what this really proved as there was more depth to heavyweights than people originally thought. Ortiz and wilder need to get amongst it rather than fight bums.

                If anything I would say the heavyweight scene is a lot less clear!
                Well I get where you are going and respect this take even if I do not necessarily agree.

                Ortiz just KTFO of a guy Parker fought and went 12 with.

                If he wasn't a bum when Joseph fought him, why is he one now?

                Wilder and AJ have a some common opponents. And more importantly, plenty of the guys each has fought have fought each other.

                In other words, they are basically competing in the same talent pool, so to denigrate the resume of one is almost certainly a bad mark against the other.

                You wanna say AJ has accomplished more in less time, you can make that argument and I will listen respectfully.

                But, I would counter by saying AJ has been more fortunate, has been very carefully matched and managed very well, and has been the lesser of two evils (and more lucrative) in the eyes of those who had to choose between fighting him or Deontay.

                And we would both have a point.

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                • EnglishOxide
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                  #28
                  Originally posted by Kezzer
                  Rather than claim all sorts of silly kudos I think what this really proved as there was more depth to heavyweights than people originally thought. Ortiz and wilder need to get amongst it rather than fight bums.

                  If anything I would say the heavyweight scene is a lot less clear!

                  Definitely seems less clear to me.

                  It seems a golden age of heavyweight boxing. So many big fights to he made and big questions to be answered.

                  I doubt we see 10 years of domination from anybody, even though that is Joshua's ambition, with the level of competition he fights it's inevitable he will be dethroned one day. There are some great fights that can be made over the next 4 or 5 years.

                  Joshua
                  Wilder
                  Povetkin
                  Whyte
                  Miller
                  T. Fury
                  Parker
                  Ortiz
                  Chisora
                  Usyk
                  Bellew
                  H. Fury
                  Joyce
                  Dubois
                  Gorman
                  Hrgovic
                  Kownacki
                  Ruiz Jr
                  Kabayel
                  Yoka

                  Let's enjoy it. In no particular order, that's the top 20 fighters in the world right there.

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                  • koolkc107
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                    #29
                    Originally posted by EnglishOxide
                    Definitely seems less clear to me.

                    It seems a golden age of heavyweight boxing. So many big fights to he made and big questions to be answered.

                    I doubt we see 10 years of domination from anybody, even though that is Joshua's ambition, with the level of competition he fights it's inevitable he will be dethroned one day. There are some great fights that can be made over the next 4 or 5 years.

                    Joshua
                    Wilder
                    Povetkin
                    Whyte
                    Miller
                    T. Fury
                    Parker
                    Ortiz
                    Chisora
                    Usyk
                    Bellew
                    H. Fury
                    Joyce
                    Dubois
                    Gorman
                    Hrgovic
                    Kownacki
                    Ruiz Jr
                    Kabayel
                    Yoka

                    Let's enjoy it. In no particular order, that's the top 20 fighters in the world right there.
                    Disagree.

                    I have said it before and have no problem repeating it.

                    When it is all said and done, AJ will be the guy that dominates this era.

                    Problem is, Hearn is on his way to fugging up that legacy chasing dollars.

                    This, when there is plenty for everyone.

                    AJ is not going to be undefeated thru this era he dominates.

                    Then again, neither was Lewis or Wlad after him.

                    But, those guys weren't great simply because they won all the time.

                    Part of the reason they became great was how they dealt with adversity and loss.

                    They learned early and were better for it in the long run.

                    AJ needs to fight Ortiz. He needs to fight Wilder.

                    Even if he loses.

                    He is still young enough to avenge the losses and learn from them.

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                    • club fighter
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                      #30
                      Originally posted by koolkc107
                      Luis Ortiz, Sparking out a guy in 2 rounds that went 12 with Parker is a statement no matter what you want to say
                      I think this says the most about the whole picture.

                      Cojanu is just a notch below Parker but made him look ineffective at times. Whyte narrowly escaped getting KO'd in the 12th by holding onto the ropes like a pitbull, not to mention he was beating Parker thru the fight with low blows, tackling, and a bogus headbutt knockdown early in the bout. Yea he did take it to JP for most of the fight, but they're pretty much the same level and Cojanu is kind of close to that.

                      With Ortiz showing what's up on that level, and Takam (a guy that AJ & Parker hold as a high level contender) getting blasted by the perennial punching bag Chisora, just shows how questionable the Euro sector is.

                      It also casts some doubt over AJ's resume.

                      ..... and the fact that Wilder KO'd Ortiz just sends it all home.

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