Comments Thread For: Wilder Erupts on Joshua: I Smell P*ssy, You Coward Ass B*tch!

[nixxter]

Wilder's fight had a bigger crowd and did a better rating than Cotto's fight. Wilder's tickets were more expensive than Cotto's. Literally everything you're saying is wrong. Where are you getting your information from?

You are comparing Cotto, a multiple time world champion in four different weight classes and a PPV star, to a guy who's never done any PPV and had almost all his fights in Alabama... Cotto's made probably over 100M in his career, Wilder started making 7 figures only after getting a shot at the WBC title. Also, you are comparing Wilder's biggest fight (against Ortiz) to one of Cotto's smallest fights. And still Cotto made reportedly over 2 million, about the same as Wilder, and Ali made more than Ortiz... Actually, Ali's reported purse of 600K is more than any Wilder's title defense opponents' purse...

But Haymon fighters pay their promoter a flat fee and often have their own promotional or entertainment company that allows them to pay themselves for the services of fighting. Part of it is definitely about saving on sanctioning fees. Would you rather pay the WBC 3% of $2 million or 3% of $4 million? As for the taxes, would you rather pay the athletic commission a cut of 2 million or a cut of 4 million? It's a no brainer.

That might be true for some Haymon fighters but certainly not for all. Wilder does not have a promotional or entertainment company and I doubt Dibella and his other co-promoter(s) get a flat fee. As for sanctioning fees and taxes, why would that apply only for Haymon and US fighters? You are stating Wilder gets more than his reported purses to save on sanctioning fees and taxes but in another thread you implied Joshua's purses are overstated by Hearn? Wilder has 1 belt, Joshua 4, why would Joshua's purses be overstated to pay higher sanctioning fees (to 4 sanctioning bodies) and taxes?

Hearn is offering Haymon's guys WAY more than their listed purses and they're all laughing at him saying they're already making more than he's offering. The head of Showtime has also confirmed they're making more than he's offering. The filed purses are completely bogus and everybody in the industry knows it. It's an open secret and has been going on for decades, but Haymon has taken it to another level by minimizing the financial participation of the promoter and maximizing the freedom of the fighter.

Hearn has offered more than their reported purses but not WAY more and that's just the start of negotiations. And who's laughing? Broner? He is not laughing anymore, he's retiring. We will see who will be laughing in the end. The fighters who stay with Haymon, or the ones who go with Hearn.

The point though is when top fighters make more than their guaranteed purses it's usually reported. It's never been reported for Wilder. What we've heard is tickets being given away for free for his fights. What we know is he gets 1-2 million a fight, Washington, Molina and Szpilka got 250k, Arreola 150K, Duhaupas 140K. Something else we know, Pulev, a guy from Bulgaria, will pocket 1.5M for a title eliminator... These are the numbers and the sad reality for Wilder no matter how much you try to spin it.

[N/A]

You are comparing Cotto, a multiple time world champion in four different weight classes and a PPV star, to a guy who's never done any PPV and had almost all his fights in Alabama

Cotto's fight wasn't on PPV, so you're still not making any sense. Clearly Cotto's filed purse was nonsense, just as Crawford's recent filed purse was nonsense, and most of Haymon's stars as well. This is an industry wide standard practice.

Cotto made reportedly over 2 million, about the same as Wilder

But Cotto's filed purse with the commission was 750k. So you're proving my point that the filed numbers are unreliable.

Wilder does not have a promotional or entertainment company and I doubt Dibella and his other co-promoter(s) get a flat fee.

Wrong. Dibella gets a flat fee. Haymon has operated this way for years. Welcome to Earth.

As for sanctioning fees and taxes, why would that apply only for Haymon and US fighters? You are stating Wilder gets more than his reported purses to save on sanctioning fees and taxes but in another thread you implied Joshua's purses are overstated by Hearn?

Hearn is a promoter and has no fiduciary duty to AJ. Promoters typically exaggerate purses in the press. If you have AJ's filed purses with the BBBoC, I'd love to see them.

Hearn has offered more than their reported purses but not WAY more and that's just the start of negotiations. And who's laughing? Broner?

Broner, Wilder, both Charlos, Mikey Garcia, Spence and Thurman have all turned Eddie down.

The point though is when top fighters make more than their guaranteed purses it's usually reported.

It's not usually reported for Haymon fighters. Non-Haymon fighters often leak their real purse to make themselves look better, but Haymon doesn't want the real numbers out there.

[peplz]

Exactly like I said. The terms were a two fight deal. Rematch was part of the terms. When they got the contract, it only stipulated a rematch in case Joshua lost. Just as I said.

Proof:



Video stating Wilder had a problem with the rematch clause not being what was initially agreed to.

Of course it only stipulates a rematch for Joshua. He is the A-side. That's how this thing works. Deontay Wilder is asking for special treatment. The kind that he hasn't really earned. The kind of treatment that only the A-side fighter receives. There will only be one A-side and it's Anthony Joshua. He can't use the fight negotiations to elevate his status in the sport, which seems like what he is attempting to do.

[travestyny]

Of course it only stipulates a rematch for Joshua. He is the A-side. That's how this thing works. Deontay Wilder is asking for special treatment. The kind that he hasn't really earned. The kind of treatment that only the A-side fighter receives. There will only be one A-side and it's Anthony Joshua. He can't use the fight negotiations to elevate his status in the sport, which seems like what he is attempting to do.

I don't think the rematch clause was a sticking point. Seems they were led to believe that there would be a rematch regardless of who won. When the contract came, they realized it stated it's only in case Wilder won. But seems they said they were still willing to go ahead with it.

However, it does seem they were waiting for the date. And they were finally given it....April 2019

[peplz]

What meetings and appearances? I don't understand whats your point about Povetkin. AJ asked for $50 a million guarantee. It took Wilder less than 20 days to accept the offer, which is understandable because they were trying to negotiate a better offer. Why did it take Hearn and AJ 24 days to reject that $50 million offer, Even though Hearn basically signaled that they were likely to accept that offer? Why did Barry Hearn advise AJ to delay the Wilder fight? Why didn't Hearn answer Finkles E-mails? Why didn't Hearn include a date and venue on the contract he sent Wilder? Why didn't Hearn just make the corrections on the contract and send it back, instead of not responding and sending a letter stating AJ is fight Povetkin? Why did Hearn do an interview saying Wilder needs to agree soon when he had already sent a letter to Finkle saying AJ was fighting Povetkin?

Why did Wilder renege on a paid commentating gig for Joshua vs Parker because he wouldn't be guaranteed access inside the ring after the fight? Why did his team cancel a face to face meeting (which Deontay Wilder's manager posted an admission of on this site) after the 50 million dollar offer? Alexander Povetkin is not a surprise. Everyone has known about that option from the beginning and this is fake outrage about that fight being made. Deontay Wilder is trying to use these seemingly intentionally failed negotiations to boost his status in the sport instead of using the fight itself. It's the same exact thing that Bob Arum and Manny Pacquiao did with the Mayweather negotiations. They never had any intentions of fighting Mayweather the same way that Wilder had no intentions of fighting Joshua. He's just clout chasing.

[nixxter]

Cotto's fight wasn't on PPV, so you're still not making any sense. Clearly Cotto's filed purse was nonsense, just as Crawford's recent filed purse was nonsense, and most of Haymon's stars as well. This is an industry wide standard practice.

But Cotto's filed purse with the commission was 750k. So you're proving my point that the filed numbers are unreliable.

While 750K was Cotto's guaranteed purse, he got more (and it was reported so) as he receives a cut from the revenue his fights generate (PPV or not). Wilder does not as he is nowhere the star Cotto is. Wilder's opponents' purses are a pretty good indicator for what the pot for his fights is. The same for Joshua's opponents purses.

Hearn is a promoter and has no fiduciary duty to AJ. Promoters typically exaggerate purses in the press. If you have AJ's filed purses with the BBBoC, I'd love to see them.

I get it. Wilder/Haymon fighters' purses are understated and Joshua/Hearn fighters' purses are overstated. Only Haymon/US fighters save on sanctioning fees and taxes, the rest of the promoters and the world don't. Pulev's 1.5 million purse for a title eliminator must be exaggerated too. If Wilder was indeed making double his official purse do you think he would have agreed to fight Povetkin in Russia for 4.5M-5M? How much was Haymon's/Dibella's purse bid for that fight?

Broner, Wilder, both Charlos, Mikey Garcia, Spence and Thurman have all turned Eddie down.

Broner is retiring. Wilder was never made an offer to join Matchroom. We don't know for sure about Mikey Garcia and the Charlos, negotiations are ongoing. Spence is self-promoted. Thurman is semi-retired.

[Illmatic94]

I'm going to be really honest with you here... I don't give a **** any more. I've had it up to here with this forum being nothing but the Joshua/Wilder fight. I'm going to give it a rest.

Nothing against you but, i'm really bored now. Sorry.

[IMG]https://media.*****.com/media/Nrl65xdV70qze/*****.gif[/IMG]

[N/A]

While 750K was Cotto's guaranteed purse, he got more (and it was reported so) as he receives a cut from the revenue his fights generate (PPV or not). Wilder does not as he is nowhere the star Cotto is.

So then who receives the revenue his fights generate? The promoter is paid a flat fee. His opponents are paid small purses according to you (ignoring that in in house fights, both filed purses are likely fake). So where is the money going? Wilder is Showtime's biggest star and biggest ratings draw. They're likely paying 4-5 million as a license fee for his fights. Another million in ticket sales. International TV, etc. Haymon sets everything up where the fighter ends up keeping as much of the revenue as possible. Just because Haymon doesn't leak the true purses like DLH & Arum do doesn't change the fact that his guys are paid more than what's filed. Standard procedure throughout the industry.

I get it. Wilder/Haymon fighters' purses are understated and Joshua/Hearn fighters' purses are overstated. Only Haymon/US fighters save on sanctioning fees and taxes, the rest of the promoters and the world don't.

I already told you it's standard procedure in the US and listed recent examples from GB & TR as well. It may very well happen around the world, but I've never worked in UK boxing so I can't comment on whether it's standard procedure there like it is here. I just asked you what AJ's filed purses have been. Filed purses may be different from Hearn's publicly stated numbers. Historically, promoters have exaggerated purses publicly to make fights look bigger and make their fighters look like bigger stars.

BWilder was never made an offer to join Matchroom.

Wrong. You get your info from Hearn's public statements on IFL. I get my info from those involved in the private negotiations. Big difference. Hearn just publicly made Deontay an offer to fight on DAZN in October for 5 million. You don't think he'd made offers to him previously?

We don't know for sure about Mikey Garcia and the Charlos, negotiations are ongoing. Spence is self-promoted. Thurman is semi-retired.

YOU don't know for sure. Just because YOU don't know something doesn't mean I don't. Mikey, Charlos, Spence and Thurman all said no.

Spence is no more "self-promoted" than Haymon's other guys. It's all semantics. Spence still paid a flat fee to another promoter to do the actual work. Haymon controls everything.

[N/A]

If Wilder was indeed making double his official purse do you think he would have agreed to fight Povetkin in Russia for 4.5M-5M? How much was Haymon's/Dibella's purse bid for that fight?

Dibella bid over 5 million, so Deontay would have made over 3.7 million had he won.

[doom_specialist]

Are you lying on purpose ?

Joshua said all along it had to be in the uk

Wilder agreed to this way before the 50m

Why did wilder try to be sly and make it at Vegas ? Why did they then refuse to negotiate and meet Hearn wih a contract


Why did they still for 4 weeks

Why did they then accept hesrns offer 2 days after it was rumoured Joshua signs dfor povetkin after 4 weeks of stalling

Why did they wait 6 days to reply after Hearn sent them a contract ?


Why did they go on espn to say they need another 5 days to send it back with comments

Why did they go public of their stalling so the wba who already have two extensions now demanded the fight ?


They did it to duck Joshua

All wilder had to do was sign the contract and he never

The fact is the fight never happened due to wilder not signing the fight

You are right everything is on record despite Shirley and wilder trying to lie and spin it

You need to have a look on the mirror, what do you get out of lying ?

"Joshua said all along it had to be in the uk"

Directly out of Joshua's mouth (and there's a video too): “I’ll take 50 million up front. If that’s the case, Wilder’s team bring me 50 million up front and we’ll take the fight.”

None of that reads as "must be in the UK". Sounds like Joshua said that $50M was all that was necessary to make a fight. Hearn confirmed the legitimacy of the offer himself, and then immediately ran from it, after spending quite a while saying hat it was a PR stunt.

"Why did wilder try to be sly and make it at Vegas ? Why did they then refuse to negotiate and meet Hearn wih a contract "

Seriously dude? He tried to be "sly" about offering Joshua $50M to fight in America? They refused to negotiate even though Joshua's camp will not entertain anything other than the UK as the fight location, even with $50M reasons to travel? You're better than this man.

"Why did they wait 6 days to reply after Hearn sent them a contract ?"

Because as Shelly Finkel has noted, there was no date or fight location on the contract and she was waiting. If you would sign a document like that, then more power to you, but legitimate businessmen will not. Also, you're doing all this questioning about why the Wilder camp is apparently stalling, when Hearn sent the contract 3 days late, and lied about not receiving responses from Wilder's camp.

"All wilder had to do was sign the contract..."

And all Joshua had to do was accept that $50M offer, and a contract would have followed. We can play the "all he had to do was..." game, but it's designed to get me going in circles with you because you know Joshua ducked this fight. Hearn lowballed Wilder, then Joshua turns down $50M, then he can't fight Wilder with just an 8 week camp, then Hearn never got a response in 9 days even though Finkel gave him one in 2 days, etc. At the tail end of all of this is Wilder's side not getting 2 weeks to agree to a contract that has no date or fight location on it, but it's Wilder's fault apparently lol. If you still think it's Wilder ducking after all of that, then I'm content with agreeing to disagree.

I will concede that Joshua should get the "A-side" privilege of fighting where he chooses, but to turn down $50M is a duck. I'll never see it any other way. This wasn't Mayweather's flat fee offer to Pacquiao. He was getting $50M + backside and said no for the sake of having his way. Any guy calling himself a prizefighter shouldn't do that, but that's just me.