How do you see Loma-Duran at 135 going?

[bballchump11]

Duran has shown multiple times he can be outboxed by very good technicians. Benitez is another guy as well. No one knows who would win but not far fetched to say lomo would.

Benitez was also 5'10 and his the youngest world champion in boxing history.

Well, considering that Hearns fought for the Cruiser weight Title and is 6'1, that's not saying much.

Now if you want to bet if Hearns can get down to 126 and fight Loma, I'd take that bet!

Both bets don't make much sense.

Well if you think that comparison was unfair then why the hell would anybody bring Hearns vs Duran up in the first place?

[chrisJS]

Man are you serious?






Do you know what those guys would do to him? You see how many times Linares was landing that left uppercut? You don't think Marquez would be having a field day?

Linares doesn't even hit that hard.

Yes. I could probably find clips of Barrera getting flattened by Jones, Morales getting a gift against Espadas and being schooled by Raheem, Marquez getting dropped by Pickney and Pacquaio being KO'd and buzzed a few times too.

Folks tend to hold a current guy and a mistake or two against him and then act like fighters in the past never once made a mistake in their entire careers.

Those four comprised of my favorite series of bouts during my lifetime and I've re-watched their fights (and attended) more than any. I think Barrera would struggle with the angles and movement as would Marquez and Morales. Pacquaio would be most dangerous but he doesn't have Loma's ring IQ. Marquez may have the best chance because of length, intelligence, his right hand and uppercuts but he'd struggle getting set against Loma. He's had hard nights with far lesser fighters.

[Cheerios36]

Benitez was also 5'10 and his the youngest world champion in boxing history.


Well if you think that comparison was unfair then why the hell would anybody bring Hearns vs Duran up in the first place?

Talking about resumes more than actually fighting each other. But if you mean, all things being equal P4P type of fight, then ok.

At this point in his career, hard to argue P4P against Loma as he is setting records and doing it by making fighters quit, but that's my opinion.

[HeadBodyBodyBody]

With all due respect to the 72-1 record. Let's look at it more closer.

At least 45 of those wins had either losing records, less than 10 wins or 8 or more losses on their resume.

If we take out those 45 wins (there were still lots of not so amazing records left such as 15-7, 121-55-19, 19-5...), you are left with 27 good wins.

The average record of those 27 wins were 29-5. Not bad, but not great either!

Loma's average record (without Salido, same courtesy I gave Duran taking out his 45 less than great wins) is 28-2. ALL Champions except one.

Undefeated fighters Duran beat during his 72-1 reign. Just ONE.

Loma has already beaten 3 undefeated Champions, not just fighters.

Duran is great, but Loma ain't chop liver and given time, who knows. Loma needs more fights to be compared to Duran, but it's early.

Duran was the only guy to KO Ernesto Marcel, the first to KO Lampkin and Hector Thompson... you can twist it multiple ways, but I think you're being a little unfair to be focussing on undefeated records. Duran has got some hot names on his record at 135: Buchanan, Kobayashi, ****, he knocked out Jimmy Robertson's teeth...

There is a modern obsession with retaining a fighter's '0', and it doesn't translate well looking back in time. It's whiggish, man, you're judging the past in light of the present. I mean, the same goes both ways too, judging the present in light of the past - it's just different eras, which is why I try not to get too caught up in fantasy match-ups

I agree with you that it's too early to tell with Loma, he's not at ATG-status yet. But focussing on records is not the way to go

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Good shout on Ortiz. One of my favourite boxing articles, in case you haven't seen it, is 'Miracle on 29th Street' - about Carlos Ortiz. A really good read. http://www.boxing.com/carlos_ortiz_m...h_street1.html

Just read that then, really enjoyed it. I was familiar with Ortiz’s story but that put it into much greater detail especially hearing it from a much more personal perspective.

[chrisJS]

Good shout on Ortiz. One of my favourite boxing articles, in case you haven't seen it, is 'Miracle on 29th Street' - about Carlos Ortiz. A really good read. http://www.boxing.com/carlos_ortiz_m...h_street1.html

Thanks. I read this years ago but will do so again. Ortiz is one of my favorite fighters and one of the most interesting to read about especially if it's based around an interview.

I first heard about him watching "Champions Forever: The Latin Legends" when I was about 11 or 12 years old and his name was probably the lesser known on the documentary (Chavez, Sanchez, Gavilan, Arguello and Duran were the others) but I loved his story and interviews and it caught my attention when LeRoy Neiman said "Ortiz in his day was what Chavez is today" so I did my research and tracked down a bunch of his fights and wasn't disappointed. Years later I remember speaking to Michael Katz and asked on his opinion of who the greatest Latino fighter was (or something along those lines) and he thought it was crazy to suggest Duran was Ortiz' superior especially if you were able to see both of them.

I took some trips to NYC in the last 12 months I really wish I could have interviewed him to pick his brain for my own collection and a friends website but I asked the guys who do the "Best I've Faced" series on The Ring and he said he interviewed him at the IBHOF. Wish I could pin down a location and schedule an interview with the great man.

[LetOutTheCage]

How many fights has Loma had at 135? What weight was Duran most effective at? For me it would be a clear win for Duran

[bballchump11]

Yes. I could probably find clips of Barrera getting flattened by Jones, Morales getting a gift against Espadas and being schooled by Raheem, Marquez getting dropped by Pickney and Pacquaio being KO'd and buzzed a few times too.

Folks tend to hold a current guy and a mistake or two against him and then act like fighters in the past never once made a mistake in their entire careers.

Those four comprised of my favorite series of bouts during my lifetime and I've re-watched their fights (and attended) more than any. I think Barrera would struggle with the angles and movement as would Marquez and Morales. Pacquaio would be most dangerous but he doesn't have Loma's ring IQ. Marquez may have the best chance because of length, intelligence, his right hand and uppercuts but he'd struggle getting set against Loma. He's had hard nights with far lesser fighters.

I know how that works, but Lomachenko can't pull off the same gameplan as those guys did. Marquez would pull off the same combinations that Linares landed but more power.

Lomachenko got knocked down after feinting a double jab coming forward. Marquez knocked out Pacquiao doing that exact same maneuver.

Speaking of Pacquiao, he hits too hard and too fast for Lomachenko. Lomachenko would befuddle Pacquiao a times in the fight, but he's not durable enough to go 12 with Manny in his prime.

Talking about resumes more than actually fighting each other. But if you mean, all things being equal P4P type of fight, then ok.

At this point in his career, hard to argue P4P against Loma as he is setting records and doing it by making fighters quit, but that's my opinion.

I'm just saying that why bring up the fact that Duran got knocked out by 6'1 Hearn at 154 in a discussion of Duran vs Lomachenko at 135?

If we were talking about Duran vs Charlo, then ok.

And who do you have between Terrance Crawford vs Sugar Ray Robinson?

[bballchump11]

I like Lomachenko and think he's #1 p4p right now unless Crawford dominates Jeff Horn in his 3rd weight class. But he'd get his **** pushed in by Erik Morales also.

[buddyr]

Yes. I could probably find clips of Barrera getting flattened by Jones, Morales getting a gift against Espadas and being schooled by Raheem, Marquez getting dropped by Pickney and Pacquaio being KO'd and buzzed a few times too.

Folks tend to hold a current guy and a mistake or two against him and then act like fighters in the past never once made a mistake in their entire careers.

Those four comprised of my favorite series of bouts during my lifetime and I've re-watched their fights (and attended) more than any. I think Barrera would struggle with the angles and movement as would Marquez and Morales. Pacquaio would be most dangerous but he doesn't have Loma's ring IQ. Marquez may have the best chance because of length, intelligence, his right hand and uppercuts but he'd struggle getting set against Loma. He's had hard nights with far lesser fighters.

Junior Jones was tall for a JF. he was Barrera's kryptonite and Naseem wanted no parts of him even as he was a weight class lower. Jones lost a lot of big fights in his career but some guys avoided him even when he wasn't on top. That right hand had dynamite in it and was accurate. He was chinny though.