So where is Wilder team's counter offer?

[Raggamuffin]

Same clowns who insisted on Glovkin taking a flat fee offer are now saying it's a horrible deal.
How quickly they change tune when it comes to their guy.
That's just a few months ago.
Disgusting fake fans.

You’re the fake ass fan that you’re talking about lmao. And this lame, pathetic, weak ass try hard reverse psychology wont work either. You’ll suck Joshua’s **** in public if you could. Lame lmao.

[Boksfan]

Wilder with the begging bowl in front of him crying to Joshua

[STREET CLEANER]

The Wilder team don't negotiate via the media like Hearn the Joshua team does.

The Wilder team even said that the Johua team went to the the electronic media before even sending them a response Email

[billeau2]

No offense but you lost me. The part about if others could potentially take the spot.

I understand, my bad.

What I mean to say is if there was another fighter who had an equal appeal to the masses, who was also negotiating with Joshua then the first fighter to come up with a satisfactory agreement would win the chance to fight Joshua. Wilder's team knows that this is not the case, meaning that when Joshua's team says "you have 48 hours to respond" or some other such statement, it is essentially meaningless with respect to negotiations.

[Raggamuffin]

I understand, my bad.

What I mean to say is if there was another fighter who had an equal appeal to the masses, who was also negotiating with Joshua then the first fighter to come up with a satisfactory agreement would win the chance to fight Joshua. Wilder's team knows that this is not the case, meaning that when Joshua's team says "you have 48 hours to respond" or some other such statement, it is essentially meaningless with respect to negotiations.

I hear ya. Both can wait, go another route or altogether not fight each other so I’m patient.

[billeau2]

Counter Offers 101

A counter offer has different forms for sure, but the basics "counter offers for Dummy's" are essentially the same. A good counter offer will separate and analyze each part of the offer and determine what parts are strong and which can't be negotiated. So for example, Will a flat fee be considered? etc etc.

Those contingencies that are not on the table will be replaced with what is acceptable.

A carrot, some contigency the other party wants will be expanded to make the offer better all the way round.

So wilder might say "Ill take ten million flat" can I get 2% of revenues? We can hold the rematch in England if you lose...

If these tactics are followed there is no reason why this fight can't be made.

Also, a little time passing is not a bad thing, there is a lot to think about and both parties are trying to do the best for their fighter.

I am very familiar with this process of offer/counter offer in my line of work... Most people have no idea what is actually effective so let me give an informed opinion: during a negotiation like this one you have some of the most brilliant minds who have already determined the big questions: The worth of both fighters, the risk/reward ratio, what each fighter has to offer versus what each fighter will be willing to offer.

ALL of these facts have already been priced into the equation for this negotiation. If you don't believe me consider the Pacman Floyd fight and why it did not happen when it should have years ago: The risk/reward for Floyd particularly was such that it made no business sense to risk a major selling point: his "0".

The efficient market theory applies here: there is no secret advantage, ingredient that either Joshua or Wilder have that will swoop in and fundamentally change the value of this fight to either man...like it, or not, Hearn's offer is in line, strictly as a BASE LINE offer!!!! to Wilder. As WBC WBA Guy has said: the offer was deliberately made so that Wilder could come back with an offer that benefits him more.

So what would help Wilder do that? Believe it or not... If Wilder's main person would meet with Hearns, and simply say "So what would you guys be willing to do for us? we want some percentage, yada yada." Hearns would answer him straight, as long as it was not recorded, not documented. Then this guy could go back to Wilder and know what to do.

Why do I think this? because believe it or not, negotiations are not really to drag concessions out of people. they are designed to make for a strong contract, that will allow for a well promoted event and which will deliver the most for both fighters. REAlly good negotiators know this! Trying to screw some one out of a few million in the long run accomplishes nothing. Your better off using logic, something like: "Well I can't look at my guy (Wilder) in the eye and tell him this is fair with no percentage, can we put something in percentage wise?"

When both fighters feel the deal is fair then negotiations have been succesful. Remember better minds than most have already priced in the value of each fighter. Hearns offer is fine as a skeleton to work with, but it is in line and demonstrates a range that will ultimately determine the value of this fight to his fighter (Joshua).

Like if a house is selling for 150k and I make an offer of 90k...thats not going to fly. On the other hand, if I say, ok, if the owner will accept carrying a second note on the property at less percent than the bank for 25% of the purchase price, I can meet a price of 140k....Or, if I happen to have cash, and say, "I can give the owner 120k cash." That will most definitely prompt a counter offer and I can expect to probably get the property for my cash for around 130 or so (if that is worth it to me). The point is, with all types of concessions and what not, the market price for the property has a range based on the asking price and in a regular transaction where there is no other variable (arms length so called) I can expect to pay a certain amount to get the property.

The only way this changes is when the transaction is worth more to one side than the other but that is usually figured in. So if Wilder lost his last fight in points, or vice versa, this change would be figured into the transaction. If in doing due dilligence I discover that the 150k house has lead paint, and the mortgage company is foreclosing upon it, that will be figured into the transaction and I will be allowed to offer less.

There is a reason for the initial offer Hearn's made, and he did not just come up with it willy nilly. The price of the house was probably figured on what similar houses sell for, the value of the fight was probably determined by people who could see all the possibilities for Joshua and the value of this fight in that determination.

[billeau2]

I hear ya. Both can wait, go another route or altogether not fight each other so I’m patient.

Raggamuffin...

One of the reasons these negotiations are difficult and divide people, aside from fandom for each fighter, is when one tries to think "hummm who would it be worse for to miss out on this fight, Joshua or Wilder?" Its a hard question to answer. Joshua wants to have all the belts, he wants to satisfy the fans, he will probably be the favorite in the odds for a fight with Wilder. Wilder on the other hand, stands to win all the belts if he prevails and as a puncher, IF he gets a rematch clause (he better!) he has 24 rounds to land a big shot and stun and take out Joshua...

Its close but I would have to say that Wilder benefits slightly more from this fight than Joshua, especially considering the rise in earning. Don't think great minds have not thought through this understanding LOL.

[Raggamuffin]

A counter offer has different forms for sure, but the basics "counter offers for Dummy's" are essentially the same. A good counter offer will separate and analyze each part of the offer and determine what parts are strong and which can't be negotiated. So for example, Will a flat fee be considered? etc etc.

Those contingencies that are not on the table will be replaced with what is acceptable.

A carrot, some contigency the other party wants will be expanded to make the offer better all the way round.

So wilder might say "Ill take ten million flat" can I get 2% of revenues? We can hold the rematch in England if you lose...

If these tactics are followed there is no reason why this fight can't be made.

Also, a little time passing is not a bad thing, there is a lot to think about and both parties are trying to do the best for their fighter.

I am very familiar with this process of offer/counter offer in my line of work... Most people have no idea what is actually effective so let me give an informed opinion: during a negotiation like this one you have some of the most brilliant minds who have already determined the big questions: The worth of both fighters, the risk/reward ratio, what each fighter has to offer versus what each fighter will be willing to offer.

ALL of these facts have already been priced into the equation for this negotiation. If you don't believe me consider the Pacman Floyd fight and why it did not happen when it should have years ago: The risk/reward for Floyd particularly was such that it made no business sense to risk a major selling point: his "0".

The efficient market theory applies here: there is no secret advantage, ingredient that either Joshua or Wilder have that will swoop in and fundamentally change the value of this fight to either man...like it, or not, Hearn's offer is in line, strictly as a BASE LINE offer!!!! to Wilder. As WBC WBA Guy has said: the offer was deliberately made so that Wilder could come back with an offer that benefits him more.

So what would help Wilder do that? Believe it or not... If Wilder's main person would meet with Hearns, and simply say "So what would you guys be willing to do for us? we want some percentage, yada yada." Hearns would answer him straight, as long as it was not recorded, not documented. Then this guy could go back to Wilder and know what to do.

Why do I think this? because believe it or not, negotiations are not really to drag concessions out of people. they are designed to make for a strong contract, that will allow for a well promoted event and which will deliver the most for both fighters. REAlly good negotiators know this! Trying to screw some one out of a few million in the long run accomplishes nothing. Your better off using logic, something like: "Well I can't look at my guy (Wilder) in the eye and tell him this is fair with no percentage, can we put something in percentage wise?"

When both fighters feel the deal is fair then negotiations have been succesful. Remember better minds than most have already priced in the value of each fighter. Hearns offer is fine as a skeleton to work with, but it is in line and demonstrates a range that will ultimately determine the value of this fight to his fighter (Joshua).

Like if a house is selling for 150k and I make an offer of 90k...thats not going to fly. On the other hand, if I say, ok, if the owner will accept carrying a second note on the property at less percent than the bank for 25% of the purchase price, I can meet a price of 140k....Or, if I happen to have cash, and say, "I can give the owner 120k cash." That will most definitely prompt a counter offer and I can expect to probably get the property for my cash for around 130 or so (if that is worth it to me). The point is, with all types of concessions and what not, the market price for the property has a range based on the asking price and in a regular transaction where there is no other variable (arms length so called) I can expect to pay a certain amount to get the property.

The only way this changes is when the transaction is worth more to one side than the other but that is usually figured in. So if Wilder lost his last fight in points, or vice versa, this change would be figured into the transaction. If in doing due dilligence I discover that the 150k house has lead paint, and the mortgage company is foreclosing upon it, that will be figured into the transaction and I will be allowed to offer less.

There is a reason for the initial offer Hearn's made, and he did not just come up with it willy nilly. The price of the house was probably figured on what similar houses sell for, the value of the fight was probably determined by people who could see all the possibilities for Joshua and the value of this fight in that determination.

Very good post.

[Raggamuffin]

Raggamuffin...

One of the reasons these negotiations are difficult and divide people, aside from fandom for each fighter, is when one tries to think "hummm who would it be worse for to miss out on this fight, Joshua or Wilder?" Its a hard question to answer. Joshua wants to have all the belts, he wants to satisfy the fans, he will probably be the favorite in the odds for a fight with Wilder. Wilder on the other hand, stands to win all the belts if he prevails and as a puncher, IF he gets a rematch clause (he better!) he has 24 rounds to land a big shot and stun and take out Joshua...

Its close but I would have to say that Wilder benefits slightly more from this fight than Joshua, especially considering the rise in earning. Don't think great minds have not thought through this understanding LOL.

As much as I stick it to Joshua all I want him to do is fight Wilder. If he can beat Wilder, he will have my full respect. I still won’t like Hearn but that’s another subject lol...

[Ray*]

If Team are going to take their time and put together a good counter offer then let’s wait and see, hopefully the American networks would help them and support them. Having all the belts in one place is very important and as much as Wilder claimed he doesn’t care about the financial side of things the truth is he cares. If he doesn’t then the fight would be signed tomorrow, so no one was ducking him after all.